Reason i wont be playing Astro anymore after ShadowBringers launches.

[Rahspdoy]

If you needed bole, ewer, or spire, someone messed up. Plain and simple.

What this means is that nothing is a necessity, and when nothing is a necessity, the cards with the most amount of useful "use cases" wins.

Want to guess which card that was?

Have you ever played bard?

You know how Bloodletter gets to 'skip' its cooldown right? Its based off your Dots 'critting'. Your dots critting are based off your crit chance. How much 'more' damage are you going to do using Bloodletter 4 times vs only 2? How about Repertoire? Same thing, its based of your dot critting, which is based off Crit chane. Does Balance help that? No.. Spear does. A Balance cycled for the 150% boost effect to use on a Spear helps even more.

But Wait! only Astro has RNG right?... So... i guess im just imagining how a Spear can actually help a Bard do more DPS than just a generic Balance can?

How about when your doing that last wall-to-wall pull in a dungeon and you want to make sure you dont have to wait for Mana before the boss fight? AOE Bole once the tank has all the mobs in a pile and relax a bit as you dont need to have your finger hovering over insta-cast heal for when that Samuri or Ninja gets hit by 5 overlapping AOE attacks they didnt see because there's 20 mobs all piled up in one spot.

And Ewer. Saying its only useful if someone messed up? I guess your saying its only useful if a Healer isnt in that 0.01% of meta-players that know 'exactly' when to move and the 'exact' spot to stand in 100% of the time and 'never' makes a single mistake? Isnt that basically calling 99% of the playerbase idiots that dont know how to play without dying?

Let's put it this way: I rather do a coin flip than quickly learn the definition of insanity by pulling Bole, then redraw as Spire, then draw a Bole again... then redraw as Ewer. Yay more minor arcana uses I guess. So yes, I do find it more interesting then internally screaming on why a Spear or a Balance won't come out due to my crappy rng. It's less of 'RNG BAD' it's more of 'I don't need most of these cards with the content and raid set up I am running with'. That's the main flaw with AST, most of the time the cards are worthless. Though I do agree that changing everything to balance isn't the best, and they should've reworked the system in a different way. What way? I dunno. Maybe make each card contribute to the party a bit better but still keeping some core effects to make things more interesting.

The other cards 'were' useful, IF you understood more of the other classes in your party than "oh its dps, so he does damage, the only card he's wanting is one that makes his damage higher and Balance is the 'obvious' choice for that".

The Bard example is a perfect one. Sure.. Balance makes 'all' their attacks hit just slightly harder than they otherwise would. But a Boosted Spear helps one of their skills be 'able' to be used more than it otherwise would have, so instead of just hitting for 20 extra damage, you get a full 200+ extra damage you otherwise wouldnt have had. Then you have the Repertoire effect, which gets absolutly 0 help from Balance, but gets a direct boost from Spear.

[Kabooa]

How about when your doing that last wall-to-wall pull in a dungeon and you want to make sure you dont have to wait for Mana before the boss fight? AOE Bole once the tank has all the mobs in a pile and relax a bit as you dont need to have your finger hovering over insta-cast heal for when that Samuri or Ninja gets hit by 5 overlapping AOE attacks they didnt see because there's 20 mobs all piled up in one spot.

AoE bole isn't saving anyone MP and only serves as the best example to why the current iteration of cards is mostly meaningless outside balance.

[Rahspdoy]

AoE bole isn't saving anyone MP and only serves as the best example to why the current iteration of cards is mostly meaningless outside balance.

And your just ignoring the entire fact that Spear 'was' useful to directly work off another class' mechanics? Because Bole does not 'seem' useful to you, then 'all' other cards are just as useless?

[Kabooa]

And your just ignoring the entire fact that Spear 'was' useful to directly work off another class' mechanics? Because Bole does not 'seem' useful to you, then 'all' other cards are just as useless?

Yes, because if you don't have a monk or Bard, Spear's value immediately diminishes, but Balance doesn't.

So Spear is only ever arguably equal to Balance when you have specific jobs partied with you, and in every other case is inferior.

Same with Arrow.

Spire is only for RR or Minor Arcana food, both options (lord/Lady) are inferior to just boosting up a party member.
Ewer has some use, but every other buff to Astrologian has made Ewer less and less significant.

[ParadoxHealer]

I'm not saying the current system is better, just that the old system wasn't 'more' interesting.

If you needed bole, ewer, or spire, someone messed up. Plain and simple. And you're not going to hold those three cards on the assumption someone is going to mess up. You're going to RR or Redraw and boost up the people -not- messing up.

That's the problem with cards. They can't be necessities so long as they're an RNG mechanic. Imagine if Bole was required for a tank to survive a buster, but you drew Balance instead. Or anything that singles out a non-tank.

What this means is that nothing is a necessity, and when nothing is a necessity, the cards with the most amount of useful "use cases" wins.

Want to guess which card that was?

Here we get to the real problem. SOME people do not see healers as a part of the team. We are essentially there as pets to ensure someone survives, but why should we have choices like DPS or Tanks on how we do our job. YOU like balance or that is all you see as helpful, so that should be our only choice. BTW even people in set raid teams make mistakes. We are not waiting for that mistake and holding a card, but when we draw we have opportunities to address problems for the party in a variety of ways. Other healer jobs can hold "cards" too, healers can save all their insta-casts, swift casts, and big heals for the accident rather than using them effectively throughout a dungeon, raid, ect. Also, what do you think all those insta-heals or swiftcast are for other than possibly resolving mistakes? I certainly do not expect groups I am healing for to be perfect, its more challenging when they are not.
What I see in your responses to these questions is what you expect from your healers...

[Kabooa]

What I see in your responses to these questions is what you expect from your healers...

Suppose I'll just let those Ice Mages do their own thing then. After all, that's their choice in DPS, and they're still doing damage, so what's the problem?

[eiozza]

The other cards 'were' useful, IF you understood more of the other classes in your party than "oh its dps, so he does damage, the only card he's wanting is one that makes his damage higher and Balance is the 'obvious' choice for that".

The Bard example is a perfect one. Sure.. Balance makes 'all' their attacks hit just slightly harder than they otherwise would. But a Boosted Spear helps one of their skills be 'able' to be used more than it otherwise would have, so instead of just hitting for 20 extra damage, you get a full 200+ extra damage you otherwise wouldnt have had. Then you have the Repertoire effect, which gets absolutly 0 help from Balance, but gets a direct boost from Spear.

You are claiming that the other cards are useful but the only example you are giving is about a card that I said you want to pull in my second post? Balance and Spear are fine. Everything else either sucks or is very situational depending on your build. And even your BRD example is kinda trash because in ShB the procs aren't based on crit anymore. And I brought up Arrow as an example of a situational card. You only want to draw Arrow if you have a BLM or a SS SAM in your party, nothing else. Most, if not all jobs, want there SS to a specific point so their rotation can be consistent. So, unless you have those two jobs, the Arrow goes to the trash. Same with Bole, Spire and Ewer. They are only ever situational.

[Rahspdoy]

Suppose I'll just let those Ice Mages do their own thing then. After all, that's their choice in DPS, and they're still doing damage, so what's the problem?

Because their not doing the 'best possible damage'.

Which is the whole reason the meta-players are saying everything excluding balance is pointless. Because 'only' Balance gives you the 'best possible damage'.

A tank with bole on him is still doing damage.

A bard with Spear is still doing damage.

A Ninja with arrow is still doing damage.

But since none of them are the 'best possible damage' according to the Meta players. That means none of them are useful.

Whats useful to the meta players? Balance, and only balance, because they feel that is the 'best possible thing'. And since its the only best possible thing, it should be the 'only' thing.

Grats, they got their wish in 5.0. Balance is the 1 and only thing Astro's get.

Our entire mechanic that set us apart from being just another whm with less powerful heals is now reduced to 1 single buff that doesnt even NEED any fancy UI to go along with it.

[ParadoxHealer]

Suppose I'll just let those Ice Mages do their own thing then. After all, that's their choice in DPS, and they're still doing damage, so what's the problem?

Well, I do not see mages being revamped to this extent because there are bunch of people playing them in a manner other players find ineffective. If you do not like the way they are playing their character do not group with them. Should we revamp the whole job so that is no longer an option, never mind the people who love the job and are playing it effectively, they can play the dumbed down version now. Or how about crafting? I know a ton of people who do not craft much because it is too complex, how about we dumb down that system so it is easier for all of them--the people who are master crafters still can craft right, but now more people can make gear so that they are geared right for dungeons? I have been in dungeons with MNKs or BLMs who are struggling, but I also know people who love those classes, so I am not advocating to simplify the classes so that everyone can be effective on that class. Same for tanks, we all have been in dungeons or a raid with someone who is learning, but that does not mean every job should be made easier. I have seen that happen in SWTOR, in Perfect World...I do not want classes that are simple.
If you do not like certain job or find others effective, the game has a way for you to address that already through groups and PF.


EDITED to remove the concern raised below.

[Kabooa]

Grats, you got your wish in 5.0. Balance is the 1 and only thing Astro's get.

That isn't my wish. At no point did I say it was.

In your world.

At no point here have I expressed my preference. I'm just telling you the state of the game, the state of the current card balance, and how little a difference the Stormblood and Shadowbringer iteration have.

Losing flavor is tragic. I'll never argue that.

But don't insult the job by parading around how great the current card system is.