BLM seems to have been left in the dust (and raise MUST BE removed on SMN/RDM)

[Kabooa]

*sigh* I meant 4.0, as the patch 4.0..

#NeverForgetLaunchBlm

[Avyiur]

snip

I don't recall ever having DPS issues with my BLM at the launch of SB. The big outcry from BLM back then was the loss of Raging Strikes. But even looking back at parses from O1S-O4S BLM was ahead of summoner except on Halicarnassus and Exdeath. They were ahead of summoner on Neo-Exdeath.

Individual rankings: https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/17#metric=dps

Granted logs are not always the best way to perceive dps as people do pad their numbers, but looking at the rankings for 4.0, BLM did just fine.

If your group demands that you as a BLM, when they know you will do more DPS on BLM, require you to change because they have this pre-conceived notion that they absolutely need a caster res then you need to find a new raid group.

When I raided as BLM for Delta/Sigma, I did so as BLM even during prog. If anything, it made our group learn mechanics faster because we did not have the liability to mess them up.

[Kurando]

snip.

Well regardless of what you think deserves what, you better get used to the status quo for even longer as Yoshi has no desire to take Rez from the other casters or give it to BLM.

https://s.famitsu.com/news/201905/29176911.html

"Q: Because the other ranged magical DPS, SMN and RDM, both have their own raise actions, right? I think there are some that want one for BLM, and some that don't...

Yoshida: Just as an example, what if BLM's raise action was based on destructive power, and raised the target at 1 HP with the Walking Dead status? But in that case, healers would definitely complain... We thought of several ideas, including ones to increase the penalty for raising, but all of them resulted in "No one would use it then." And raising is supposed to be the healer's job in the first place, so this wouldn't be the right direction to go in. The same goes for synergy, so instead of adding those elements to BLM, we went for a simpler evolution of the job.

Q: So there were also things that people wanted which, after discussing, you decided not to implement.

Yoshida: Indeed. I think that the people who enjoy playing BLM do it because they like putting out high DPS, so even if we gave them Raise, they wouldn't proactively use it. If they try to hold Swiftcast for it, then it makes it hard to Swiftcast when they need to for movement. The final decision came down to me, but I felt that BLM doesn't need Raise."

[Zyneste]

Personally I'm at the point where I do agree, its "unfair" for RDM/SMN to have a raise and BLM not. Its also unfair that SMN and RDM lose so much DPS raising. As the caster role has lost most of its support role skills, they are moving away from support into raw Damage. Having a raise on the GCD fights this new ideal of caster.

How classes are currently balanced are:

PDPS + RDPS + PSUPPORT vs PDPS + RDPS + PSUPPORT

[Complexity is also a part of balance, but with them making changes in 4.0 saying they want to remove complexity/skill ceiling as part of balance I'm just gonna ignore it right now (Yet say tanks have a large skill ceiling difference????!???)]

How classes should be balanced is:

PDPS + RDPS vs PDPS + RDPS

and also

PSUPPORT vs PSUPPORT


You cannot balance a safety net against a glass cannon. That develops classes into niches. Prog vs Farm type of thing. Its why SMN was successful throughout SB because it had access to a raise and it was so close in DPS to BLM originally. Each role should have its own set threshold for DPS + RDPS and for Psupport. All classes within the role should be balanced to the same standard.

I would say that each caster should get a raise on the OGCD with a long cool down (60+ seconds.) They are not support, its clear to see that with their role skills. They can all share the niche of raising with a long cool down and should all have balanced RDPS + PDPS. This way, every caster can raise and no caster will be losing DPS to do it. There will no longer be a safe choice or a true glass cannon. They will be 3 casters doing their role of "Do as much damage as you can do and maybe raise once in a while." This or offer an alternative where each caster provides something equivalent to raising (like BLM getting an OGCD buff that says the next raise/ressurection/Ascend has no cast time and costs no mana for example.]

[Kabooa]

Well regardless of what you think deserves what, you better get used to the status quo for even longer as Yoshi has no desire to take Rez from the other casters or give it to BLM.

Every time Engagement gets brought up from Red Mages wanting something better, I'll be sure to let them know Yoshi P meant for them to have this and his decision can never change.

[Kurando]

Every time Engagement gets brought up from Red Mages wanting something better, I'll be sure to let them know Yoshi P meant for them to have this and his decision can never change.

I never said anything can't change in future but for the time being that's how it's going to be so don't expect changes any time soon. Maybe 6.0 but I don't see anything happening next expac. Besides changes to Engagement probably wouldn't have much of an outcry as messing with Rez availability.

[Katie_Kitty]

I'd really rather Red Mages identity not be dictated by people messing up, personally... "For prog then tossed aside for something stronger once we know the mechanics" ain't ideal either.

Believe me, I'd be more than happy if RDM was more about dealing big damage and didn't have to worry about being defined purely by its raise. But RDM standing out for its raise is the vision the devs seem to have for the job so I'd prefer it not be diluted by allowing more classes to raise as well. Keeping RDM damage lower than BLM and SMN while simultaneously expanding the number of jobs that can raise is pretty much a worst-case scenario for RDM.

[Naoki34]

I just remember one thing :
" *Job effectiveness will vary depending on player skill "

[Nalien]

Believe me, I'd be more than happy if RDM was more about dealing big damage and didn't have to worry about being defined purely by its raise. But RDM standing out for its raise is the vision the devs seem to have for the job so I'd prefer it not be diluted by allowing more classes to raise as well. Keeping RDM damage lower than BLM and SMN while simultaneously expanding the number of jobs that can raise is pretty much a worst-case scenario for RDM.

Why would they balance it like that though, if they gave everyone Raise? If they abandon the (silly) idea of Red Mage being a Raise Mage, and just make that a standard thing across Casters, they'd also have to rebalance the Jobs... That just goes without saying, surely? Either Red Mage would see a damage buff to bring it more in line with Black Mage and Summoner, or it would have some different form of utility added, which can hopefully be a tad more interesting than Raise.

[Maero]

@ Zerathor

Smn still has lots of utility, i kind of admit i did not look much at what 5.0 smn will get but it's total dmg should not equal to that of blm which does not have the utility.
I do get what you are saying and agree in part, just not that smn should have equal dmg to blm is all