5.0 healer catastrophizing is illogical - Change My Mind

[Veis_Alveare]

we are talking about end game raiding where everyone needs to do their part and 5.0 Healers have toddler damage.

Also your statement that selene is hotbar bloat is illogical, because it's immeasurably easy to create a hotbar replacement macro, or like me... keybind the dang pet hotbar so it changes itself. Now I have MORE hotbar bloat because I have to now put my placement and obey actions on my battle hotbars.

Where do you get the idea that healers have "toddler damage" from?

Combat macros are always a bad idea, don't do them.

You don't need to put Place or any other pet control on your hotbars (though I would and have and have never had issue fitting them) since they're still on the pet hotbars if you've been clicking them there or whatever.

Homogenization is bad the closer classes get to being reskins of each other, and Shadowbringers is getting extremely close.

.. you now have three with absolute no skill ceiling whatsoever.

I really want to reply to most contradictory statements with more than "I disagree" but yours is seemingly exclusively opinion so I'm not sure what else I can say? You posted what you think, I posted what I think and I still think you're wrong. I would agree that there is a way in which homogenization can go too far but I don't believe that we've hit that threshold in ShB and I believe we were too diverse in SB which only lead to more balancing issues.

I agree SCH plays less like a dps with a pet to assist them. Part of the SCH skill ceiling was basically letting your cohealer handle much of the heavy lifting during progression because until you've got things planned out you aren't worth much on SCH apart from emergency Indoms. I'm glad they're making SCH more of a healer, it needs to be or it'll keep chadding it's cohealers needlessly.

our ogcd heals are stronger than ever and you have a job with boring dps kit that will spend its gcds doing that boring thing because it can heal by only using ogcd heals.

I think many of your concerns could be countered by the idea that there may be more damage coming out in the raids in ShB. I'll happily admit I don't know that to be the case but with the large buffs to healing and mitigation that we are seeing across almost all jobs in one way or another I would be startled to think we're still going to be able to skate by on oGCDs alone outside of the very best of groups which I doubt any of us is a part of. This would also give dissipation back some of its value despite not having energy drain - otherwise I'm not sure why they would update dissipation instead of just removing it with the other changes we are seeing to aetherflow. Only time will tell.

ED loss.

We're getting to a part of the post where I've kind of answered things you're addressing (like dissipation and the loss of energy drain) in prior sections so I won't go over that again but in the beginning you mention not understanding how I can mention finding ways to minimize GCD healing and "the next part" together. I'm not sure what you meant by "the next part" but contextually I'll assume you're referring to the idea of SCH and AST using more GCD heals particularly when paired with a WHM.

Opportunity cost for the healers leaves WHM in the lead with the strongest nuke but in SB WHM was almost always paired with SCH. When a SCH didn't have Indom up or wasn't able to deploy an Adlo they generally didn't contribute much to AoE healing because they didn't have tools that were as good as those on WHM. SS costed an aetherflow stack so if you were lucky you got fey covenant. This meant the WHM would wind up casting more GCD heals because a SCH would need to spend multiple GCDs to heal as much as a WHM could. SCH got to sit there and dps because succor is bad, basically. As SCH gets more tools they can heal more and free up mote GCDs for their WHM to nuke.

I hope this clears that up.

It's boring, and bad because it's boring--carbon copy jobs who's biggest differences are superficial cosmetic designs is a worst-case scenario for a game like this. THE FUN in trying something new is that it is...well, NEW.

Edit: If they reverse the damning changes to green DPS I'd actually be fine and go back into obscurity and stop posting

I disagree that the changes are that extreme as to render healer differences purely cosmetic.

As to your green dps comment it sounds as if you'd be okay with them increasing our healing abilities as they have but not increasing the damage alongside them to compensate for it? That just sounds even more boring to me, no thanks.

The thing I am most excited for as an AST is just "You get gravity 7 levels earlier".

I like your outlook! I agree, I'll miss playing with the times of buffs for sure but honestly trading it for Gravity at 45... I'm kind of not that mad about it.

So I am genuinely curious about how you reached this conclusion.

Healer pDPS appears to be very very close now. The "homogenized" as people are saying. So... I'm curious about what you're looking at that makes you think WHM has more, somehow.

In short (because I've addressed it before) it's because WHM's partners have more healing options which means WHM should lose less GCDs to healing on their own. If you're choosing between the two healers covering something WHM should not be your first pick ever but due to WHM's thoroughput (especially compared to SCH in SB, it's most common partner) it often picked up the slack. As that slows WHM would naturally reach higher personal dps by virtue of habing the strongest dps abilities. The only part of dps contribution that remains a total mystery is how impactful rDPS buffs are.

...

I very nearly ignored your post because of the way you started it with an obvious troll question but I'll be the adult here and let it go. No, as plenty of people have told you at this point my main is clearly not a level 43 ninja. I posted on the forums a total of two times before I had someone make a character to start harassing me with tells about how they disagreed and I don't wish to repeat the experience so this is a very old alt.

I've been over a lot of this so as to new things - WHM got instant GCD heals because they're still trying to pigeon hole it into a stereotype. I'm not their biggest fan myself but I don't think they're a bad thing and they're still decent movement tools. I can only imagine how much easier HW2 would have been with those handy. If you are so skilled you can handle late stage Savage using only your oGCDs please teach us all but I really, really doubt it unless you're standing on the back of your cohealers head to do so. Also, while I'm not trying to sound sassy it's going to come off that way, don't try to talk down to me about "inexperience showing" when I can see that you're likely not displaying an alt and you also have room to improve. Your best final that I can find has 16 Medica casts... I think you can find a place to work in free, instant Medica casts without too much issue and shouldn't be turning them (or the dps ability you get on top of the mp saved and movement) away.

I actually agree about CU on AST. Its a shame. I'm still looking forward to using it's new kit though and I don't think it's as close to a carbon copy of WHM anymore which is a bonus.

simpleminded

Yours I'm actually going to ignore because the condescension and awful color palette is too much for me.

I'm happy for each and every SCH nerf that happened and I think after the total domination of SCH in SB they deserved it.

That's all for now because ow my eyes are bleeding.

Thanks to everyone who gave respectful feedback, even if we disagree it doesn't mean we need to act like children about it and I'm certainly looking forward to another month of SaltBringers prep.

[Sathona]

People like the OP are the kind of healers i love <3

[Sebazy]

...in your theoretical opener why do you have Art of War spamming?

I'm a bit rusty on UWU, but I think the Miasma II/AoW spam lines up with the movement involved in repositioning for the bubble and cleanses?

[Brandedblade]

I'm a bit rusty on UWU, but I think the Miasma II/AoW spam lines up with the movement involved in repositioning for the bubble and cleanses?

If that's the case, wouldnt Ruin II be better? Or is it an aoe damage phase? EDIT: Ok, if it's a matter of being synched down to 70 that's one thing since the trait that buffs Ruin II is 72 but if this example is a 72+ fight Ruin II would be better on both potency and mp economy

[EaMett]

...in your theoretical opener why do you have Art of War spamming?

It's to dps the plumes + boss (5-6 targets? I forget). Basically. The number of spams will depend on random crits etc.. from the entire party though.

[Sebazy]

If that's the case, wouldnt Ruin II be better? Or is it an aoe damage phase? EDIT: Ok, if it's a matter of being synched down to 70 that's one thing since the trait that buffs Ruin II is 72 but if this example is a 72+ fight Ruin II would be better on both potency and mp economy

It's AoE damage as well. This is them aoeing down the plumes.

[Brandedblade]

It's AoE damage as well. This is them aoeing down the plumes.

Ok. Without that context it made no sense. But I understand now. Regardless one fights very specific mechanics is not exactly the best example of how a rotation would likely be.

[Ilenya]

We're getting to a part of the post where I've kind of answered things you're addressing (like dissipation and the loss of energy drain) in prior sections so I won't go over that again but in the beginning you mention not understanding how I can mention finding ways to minimize GCD healing and "the next part" together. I'm not sure what you meant by "the next part" but contextually I'll assume you're referring to the idea of SCH and AST using more GCD heals particularly when paired with a WHM.

"find new ways to minimize necessary GCD heals - If your concern is that your personal dps will be lower because some of those solutions may now require you to GCD heal I have no sympathy."

This is the full quote from where I was curious about, for reference. The fact is, if healers are spending their time lowering necessary GCD heals, they will almost certainly be using that time to do DPS. Calling people out about complaining about lower DPS due to GCD heals being required right after saying healers would be actively working with others in their party to avoid GCDs seems...Silly to me, is all.

[EaMett]

Yours I'm actually going to ignore because the condescension and awful color palette is too much for me.

Well I'm on a roll, what can I say. Not like there was anything valid there anyways /s.

I'm happy for each and every SCH nerf that happened and I think after the total domination of SCH in SB they deserved it.

Maybe this is the main theme of this thread and the reason why there's no problem for you in the first place.

Also if you think SCH won't dominate from what we know so far... I don't know what to say. You probably don't understand the changes as well as you think you do. The SCH issues aren't in the numbers.

[EaMett]

Ok. Without that context it made no sense. But I understand now. Regardless one fights very specific mechanics is not exactly the best example of how a rotation would likely be.

Yes and No. I chose this section in particular because it's very healing and ogcd heavy. It's a perfect example to demonstrate that even in this context the new gameplay is going to be clunky and some lack of skills are problematic. It's all downhill from there. I basically showed something that's pretty close to best case scenario for good opportunities to weave and get a good flow on SCH and it's already subpar. Other less healing intensive fights (basically everything outside of ultimate is a safe bet) are going to have gameplay similar to WHM's curent situation.