Shadowbringer: Summoner Changes Discussion

[Elenoe]

I know, and I'm a bit afraid of consequences:

there is no way demis can be aligned (bahamut cannot go on DWT while phoenix has to) so the "buff windows" (devotion included) as well as 4 festers/aetherflows (every 60s) won't align with them well.

One of them will only have 2 festers + energy drain for weaving. (The other can have all 4 festers + energy drain.)

[Gallus]

You don't care about aligning anything now on your bahamut/phoenix phases because the demis don't akh morn/scarlet flame on OGCDs, only GCDs. Might as well burn your aetherflow stacks the very moment you have them now, no reason to delay anything.

[Gallus]

Phoenix trance puts Dreadwyrm Trance on cooldown.

I swear to god, this disappoints me to no end. Like, they could've perfectly done a rotation with DWT (15 sec) -> Demi Bahamut (20 sec) -> Demi Phoenix (20 sec), and suddenly, everything pieces all well together because your DWT CD is on 60 seconds and all that takes 55 seconds, so you can literally repeat that cycle again (and you would've used your Egis during your DWT mainly). It would've been such an interesting, balanced and exciting rotation.

Instead, they make DWT and Phoenix share CDs forcing us to go on a filler ruin spam rotation the next 40 seconds after Phoenix. WTF!?

I'm so, so, so, so disappointed right now.

So it's the same garbage all over again, with SMN having DPS peaks all over the place. "Casts Bahamut/Phoenix", Susano uses his rock ability on you ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Here please, watch your DPS sink into oblivion once that happens. Would have it killed them to slightly lower the potencies but keep your DPS more like a straight line instead of having these peaks followed by a snorefest/filler?

[Elenoe]

So it's the same garbage all over again, with SMN having DPS peaks all over the place

given the GCD you've mentioned it's not the same. First you have your "bursts" every 60s instead of 120s (and much sooner after start). And they are not as significant as they were. Wyrmblade was strong because it was cast a lot more often then standard garuda autoattack. If it isn't now demi (or loosing it) won't matter as much as it matters now.

[XenabelleS]

I'm devastated.

I really can't see any way that I'll be able to main summoner through the MSQ as I've done since I started due to the loss of a tank pet.

I play summoner because I don't like mobs hitting me or having to constantly dodge, when I'm playing. I mean sure, I have to do it with every other class and I use the chocobo liberally when doing that, but that isn't available in the solo instances.

I don't think I would have been able to do the 4.x solo fights at the end of Stormblood if I hadn't had Titan to tank.

I mean, sure, as these other pets have risen in prominence, it's become more challenging. For example, in neither of those scenarios was I able to call Bahamut because Titan would have vanished and I would have taken agro and been killed. But having the pocket tank was WAY more important to my success than not being able to use my full tool kit.

There are two hopes :
1) If Physic has become a real heal (scales on Int), then there might be a way.
2) If Titan's Earthen Armor + Pheonix medica is strong enough to keep up with all the incoming damage, SMN might be playable at 80 (when we get Pheonix)

But for levelling... I just don't see any way. I saw Larry's video of both the range and melee mobs attacking his character instead of the pet but that was a level 80 character fighting level 71 mobs. At level, I just don't see it as possible.

So I am now deciding between RDM and WHM as my main instead. RDM means I just need to get the weapon whereas WHM will need a fair bit more gear (I bought a full 380 set for SMN in what I was hoping was preparation for the xpac.

I am so very disappointed today. The worst fears from the live letter have come true.

[Len]

Does Fountain of Fire (Ruin III) in Firebird Trance still benefit from Ruination? If so, does it also benefit from the increase in potency from having dots applied? Would that be too OP?

Ruin IV is a juicy 320 potency with Ruination + both dots applied.
Ruin III is 270 potency under the same conditions.

It would be pretty spicy if those effects still applied.

@XenabelleS Egi-assault II (Earthen Armor) has two charges, so we should be good in terms of mitigating damage without Titan-egi now. Black Mage manages just fine, and so will we.

[Zionite]

In the various media tour videos I've seen them use Bane right after tri-disaster. Do people still use bane after the nerf?
Or are they only doing it to spread ruination for outburst?

[RissotoMissoto]

by the way, there /will/ be some lining things up.

Tool Tips:

Summons Demi-Bahamut to fight by your side. Each time you use a magic attack on a target, Demi-Bahamut will execute Wyrmwave on the same target.
Duration: 20s
Dreadwyrm Aether Cost: 2
Cannot summon Demi-Bahamut unless a pet is already summoned. Current pet will leave the battlefield while Demi-Bahamut is present, and return once gone.
Cannot use while under the effect of Dreadwyrm Trance.

So summon Demi-Bahamut /has/ been paired down so that he only uses wyrmwave when we cast a spell. however:

Entering Firebird Trance will summon Demi-Phoenix which executes Everlasting Flight as it manifests. Each time you use an action on a target, Demi-Phoenix will execute Scarlet Flame.
Duration: 20s
Cannot enter Firebird Trance unless a pet is summoned. Current pet will leave the battlefield while Demi-Phoenix is present, and return once gone.

So demi-pheonix will effectivly be the same weaving tricks we used with Demi-Bahamut in storm blood, with the added bonus that we instead of Ruin IIs, we have Fountain of Fire on instant cast.

All that said, it's hard to say if it's worth waiting on the recast of Energy Drain to allow 5 OGCD's (fester, fester, Energy Drain, Fester, Fester,) without sitting down and doing math. but the 20 second timer seems like it would limit that, especially because of enkindle phoenix.

[Len]

In the various media tour videos I've seen them use Bane right after tri-disaster. Do people still use bane after the nerf?
Or are they only doing it to spread ruination for outburst?

Currently, in an AoE situation, Bane is used mainly to enter DWT quicker. I don’t know the math on whether or not Bane is more optimal than Painflare in certain situations, so I tend to go with painflare more often.

You have the right idea about it in Shadowbringers. It’s used for the spread of ruination for outburst and the fact it no longer costs Aetherflow.

[RissotoMissoto]

In the various media tour videos I've seen them use Bane right after tri-disaster. Do people still use bane after the nerf?
Or are they only doing it to spread ruination for outburst?

at the moment Bane vs Painflare is entirly a "how many targets are there" questions since 3x painflare is more DPS when Bane's deminishing returns start to come in in large enemy packs. but now that Bane is its own thing and doesnt take away from an Aetherstack like it used to there's really no reason not to use it, because you aren't losing a potential Painflare.