GM Warning for 'Offensive Language', No actual reason given

[van_arn]

Yeah, if Square's going to provide the veneer of customer service by issuing warnings in person then that person must say what the warning is for specifically.

Otherwise get rid of the face-to-face meetings entirely and replace them with an automated system.

This is a waste of resources.

The only reason I can think a GM could not state the problem is if they were afraid or embarrassed to say it out loud, in which case the issue is probably with the policy requiring them to take this action.

[Drayce1]

Sighs im just glad Pantheon will keep the so called "snowflakes" out.

Its getting to a point that im losing more and more of my interest in XIV, and its not cuz of the game, other than a few badly designed mechanics here and there, I love the game, but its the community that just drives me insane. Gotten to a point I talk to no one but my FC anymore, I dont even talk in Eureka groups.


But I will say this as well.

Their is a reason, why SE will not and cannot tell you what it is your being punished for.

Because you will take 2 + 2 together, and figure out who it was that reported you.

Then you will want to retaliate, out of anger.

And their is many ways to do that in mmos, I have seen it all. I will not give any examples because its a no no on the these forums.

So in the end.

Just let it go.

[Skivvy]

What is a reasonable standard though? I have been apart of several games and forums where they have a similar ToS about profanity yet it only pertains to things like the F word. Some don't even mind if you swear, provided it isn't excessive or directed towards anyone. On the opposite end, are we supposed to use darn and heck because their equivalents are "curse words" to some people?

It's actually funny you mentioned that. I had a post typed up along these lines, but ended up deleting it.D:

I grew up in a rather reserved household and we weren't allowed to say words like crap and shoot as these were euphemisms for worse. As an adult, my language can be a tad more colorful now and then, but I generally know when and where it's appropriate to use stronger language. At home with my husband? Sure! At a dinner at my parent's house? Never. In a game that has a rather strict ToS that I signed off on? Probably wouldn't be wise.

I'd like to think that most people can gauge what type of language to use in various circumstances. I personally tend to go with the reasoning that if it's a word I don't want my 8 year old to use, I could also probably get in trouble for it here on the forums/in-game. Things still slip out here and there, but if I got reported again, I don't really have anyone to blame but myself.


And I cut the bottom of your post by accident - but I definitely agree that they should at least provide the person's reported text. Maybe not the whole conversation if they're concerned about showing names, but at the very least the offender's comments.

Their is a reason, why SE will not and cannot tell you what it is your being punished for. Because you will take 2 + 2 together, and figure out who it was that reported you. Then you will want to retaliate, out of anger.

As a counter, they do email you your comment with reports on the forums. When I received mine, I knew the exact thread it came from, and the exact poster I had said it to. I could have easily have made an alt on his world and harassed him if I felt like it (I wouldn't, but just saying I could have).

[Anselmet]

And their is many ways to do that in mmos, I have seen it all. I will not give any examples because its a no no on the these forums.

Like I understand your worry, I really do, but if someone retaliates against someone a GM will ban you. That is harassment and they do not mess with that. So you would go from getting a warning to getting a ban. Most people will just take the warning. Of course, people can take to tumblr and reddit to shame people who reported them, but if they were to then invite these people to attack the person that reported them then they too will get a ban. Letting us know what we did wrong sure will let us know who reported us, but the caveat is that we cannot do anything about it or attack that person. We're in trouble already, unless we're now aiming to lose our account, why would someone then go and pester that person. Clearly they're the type that will report you over language, so of course as soon as they think you may be trying to harass them from either 1. using words to 2. just doing squats in their vicinity they will call up a gm and the ban hammer will come down.

So no, I don't think this is a very good reason. But then again, I think the ToS are crap as is.

[van_arn]

As a counter, they do email you your comment with reports on the forums. When I received mine, I knew the exact thread it came from, and the exact poster I had said it to. I could have easily have made an alt on his world and harassed him if I felt like it (I wouldn't, but just saying I could have).

Exactly, and if harassment comes from this knowledge that's a separate, actionable, report. That's not justification for withholding information that can improve a player's behavior.

[Drayce1]

It's actually funny you mentioned that. I had a post typed up along these lines, but ended up deleting it.D:

I grew up in a rather reserved household and we weren't allowed to say words like crap and shoot as these were euphemisms for worse. As an adult, my language can be a tad more colorful now and then, but I generally know when and where it's appropriate to use stronger language. At home with my husband? Sure! At a dinner at my parent's house? Never. In a game that has a rather strict ToS that I signed off on? Probably wouldn't be wise.

I'd like to think that most people can gauge what type of language to use in various circumstances. I personally tend to go with the reasoning that if it's a word I don't want my 8 year old to use, I could also probably get in trouble for it here on the forums/in-game. Things still slip out here and there, but if I got reported again, I don't really have anyone to blame but myself.


And I cut the bottom of your post by accident - but I definitely agree that they should at least provide the person's reported text. Maybe not the whole conversation if they're concerned about showing names, but at the very least the offender's comments.




As a counter, they do email you your comment with reports on the forums. When I received mine, I knew the exact thread it came from, and the exact poster I had said it to. I could have easily have made an alt on his world and harassed him if I felt like it (I wouldn't, but just saying I could have).

Ingame and forums are different. Very different. They will never tell you if its coming from in-game. Two separate GM teams. Two separate policies.

[Drayce1]

Like I understand your worry, I really do, but if someone retaliates against someone a GM will ban you. That is harassment and they do not mess with that. So you would go from getting a warning to getting a ban. Most people will just take the warning. Of course, people can take to tumblr and reddit to shame people who reported them, but if they were to then invite these people to attack the person that reported them then they too will get a ban. Letting us know what we did wrong sure will let us know who reported us, but the caveat is that we cannot do anything about it or attack that person. We're in trouble already, unless we're now aiming to lose our account, why would someone then go and pester that person. Clearly they're the type that will report you over language, so of course as soon as they think you may be trying to harass them from either 1. using words to 2. just doing squats in their vicinity they will call up a gm and the ban hammer will come down.

So no, I don't think this is a very good reason. But then again, I think the ToS are crap as is.

Oh you have no idea what people will do when le butt-hurt is involved. And their are ways to retaliate without being tagged for it. In my 20 years of mmo play I seen it all, some of it just being pure evil. Again, I cant state some examples, its a bad no no, forum GMs frown upon giving players ideas.

[Veis_Alveare]

I worry about this kind of thing all the time honestly.

My FC recently had someone return to the game after quite a long break and he's brought a lot of his friends from WoW with him. I know the whole "WoW refugee" thing is a meme but honestly all that I've encountered have been cool, chill people that fit in with my FC rather well.

The thing is it's more than doubled our average amount of activity even with this being a major content drought. We've never been anything approching politically correct and also have members who talk openly about parsing. As a small, close knit community this was never an issue; FC is amazing, they even paid my sub one month when I was having a lot of irl troubles.

But now I see random sprouts on there and have to second guess myself or reserve my comments for discord - I don't know them, they're probably perfectly fine people like everyone else that I've met who has joined recently... but with the ToS changes and stories like this floating around I'm just too scared.

SE is headed toward a standard of needing exterior communication to just be the norm, like delete the chat box and everyone can join discord.

The potential sensitivity of some incredibly entitled people shouldn't be costing me the comfort of speaking freely.

[Anselmet]

Oh you have no idea what people will do when le butt-hurt is involved. And their are ways to retaliate without being tagged for it. In my 20 years of mmo play I seen it all, some of it just being pure evil. Again, I cant state some examples, its a bad no no, forum GMs frown upon giving players ideas.

Ah, well I guess I'm not that imaginative bc I feel that logs are connected to your account so anything you do in game would be reportable. As for using harassment outside of the forums and ffxiv they can't control that at all. I know people who have been harassed outside the game bc they rp'd a character 'wrong'. I know people who were a tight group then had a nasty break up. I know half that group tried to silently harass the other members by running around and laughing in their area and jumping before taking to their tumblr blogs. I know that that stuff like that was put to an end by a gm threatening them. So when I know of cases like this I can't think of a way someone could harass someone in game actively and get away with it. It'd have to be some pretty dirty and well thought up retaliation. Something I don't think the masses are capable of. Just the grade A bad people.

[Skivvy]

Making an alt to harass someone again only shows that the person ( the one doing the harassment ) is not that clever .. cause all you would be doing is giving the GM's more reasons to ban your account.

I would say it's not the brightest idea to take a grievance to that level, but emotions can make people do some pretty stupid things. Point was though, when I was reported I was provided the offending comment. I could have tracked down the person that reported me (or at least who I thought did..) based on that. Seems with in-game warnings, at least in this case, they don't give any specifics. Why is there a difference?