Why are people calling it “casualbringers” now?

[MirielleLavandre]

It is actually in essence bringing skill to the forefront. In the past, jobs like BRD and NIN and DRG would be taken for their buffs alone, pretty much making their spot a solid, constant pick. With these types of buffs being removed, and with almost all melee dps and ranged dps being brought 'in line' to do comparable damage given skillful play, this should actually make those who want a challenge more happy. Instead of being picked because you fulfill a buff-bot role, you will be picked because, given almost exactly the same tools (with different names and animations) to do damage, you are skillful enough to do more damage than someone with the same potential to do damage. I'd think this would make people worried about the 'skill' part of the equation happy...? **intentionally left out Dancer b/c it is new and really....it's buffs are insane >.>**

[Penthea]

Can anyone tell me why some people calling the game casual after shadowbringers skill showcase.

Some only feel good about themselves when they put down others.

Some are allergic to change and use the supposed ineptitude of other people to hide their aversion to change.

Some jump on the hate trains because they think it's cool.

And some clearly have somehow still not realised that SE have always catered to far more than just the hardcore community. SE know that their audience is made up of players who take the game seriously in varying degrees and in different content, and this is a good thing. FFXIV has always had a great deal of casual content.

Also people are comparing this to what WOW did, any context for that?

I played WoW for over a decade. There is nothing about ShB that makes me think of WoW. If it's because of skill pruning, well that is inevitable in any mmo. This isn't unique to WoW.

[Averax]

Correct. I don't think there has ever been that much complexity to jobs. Most have been easy to pick up, relatively easy to master aside from a few jobs. The changes they are making for Shadowbringers make getting into every job easier which isn't really a bad thing imo. It's still going to take skill to master them, people will just be punished slightly less for messing up or not playing optimally. It's change though and people hate change.

Indeed. As i seem to recall. In ARR everything was really basic. Heavensward was about the peak of job complexity, and now it's starting to drop back down, but it's not a bad thing either. The rotations now have way more depth than they did back in ARR, and our bars just aren't as bloated anymore with rotation maintenance buttons.

I played a BLM in ARR. That's about as basic as the game ever got.

[Dualblade]

Remember the days of PLD having just one combo meaning it was always close to taking aggro off WAR tanks? I do.

[gumas]

you cant satisfy people, especially people who play mmorpg, they just keep asking more and they complain more.

look at before job trailer out, everyone keep saying current skill is bloated, complex yadayada
now job trailer is out, everything is dumb down, the game become casual (where it already casual even back in ARR)

you cant satisfy people, full stop.

[SenorPatty]

I welcome the changes.

If you look at the tanks, especially when it came to rotations, you notice at endgame, we just do one enmity combo per boss fight and that's about it. There was never any real need to do more than one of those if everyone else properly managed their enmity or save for exceptional situations. We mostly had to switch between stances when certain situations required it but for the most part, you could pretty much stay in dps stance for long periods of time. The new system, to me, feels like it's just streamlines that. It's not like what we have now is complex at all to say SE is dumbing it down. Now I can certainly understand the feeling that it makes thing seem boring, similar to the argument of putting combos into one button a la pvp. For that particular aspect of the game, I will reserve my full judgement after it comes out. If it will feel like it's boring, then I will call it as such and vice versa.

[Shougun]

Just because something has a simpler system doesn't mean it's easy. Chess or Gomoku / Go are relatively easy to explain and yet skill ceiling and floor are all over the place lol.

..Don't really have much to add beyond that, the game could become even more "simplified" and yet with some key points of change become even more skill welcoming.

Simplified systems != casuals only game with no high skill demands.

[Mezzoforte]

Forcing a "bad player" to do X won't make them ever use X. They will simply do what they need to get through that and go back to doing what it was they wanted to do. They aren't bad due to an inability to learn or be taught. They are bad because they choose to do things counter to what is most efficient. No amount of training, forcing them through stuff, etc. will fix that. Even gating content they will still do the minimum to get through and go back to whatever they were before. They will simply regress unless constantly forced all the time. The issue is really being able to carry bad players through content. If those types of players had no way to get carried then they could be left behind. However, as this game is it only takes a couple decent players to carry half a group of bad players. The solution also is a problem because then everyone will be at the mercy of whether you get a single bad player or not.

There isn't really a good solution in either direction. I can understand stream lining certain elements if "the average user" is having issues with it which it seems they are doing. They aren't lowering stuff down so low that someone fresh in the game can hit the top. I honestly feel most of the complaints about this stuff is simply the need to be contrarian rather than being a real issue.

[Insertcoins]

Ok, listen here scrubs. Obviously I didn't set the bar high enough.
New rule: you are a casual unless you play the game with your mind.

Does daydreaming and night dreaming count? Cause all you do is play/eat/drink/watch videos about XIV? :O I need answers man T.T DON'T LEAVE ME!!

[RyuDragnier]

Because many of the systems have been dumbed down

> 15 battle separate job quests down to 4 types role quests

> 13 DoH/DoL separate job quests down to 3 types of role quests

> Role Actions reduced for every role type (down to 4 ?! for magic dps)

> Jobs simplified (Tanks losing emnity chains)

I could be wrong, but I never saw a single post of feedback asking for any of the above. If anything, players wanted more job identity and more complexity.

I'll give them the Role quests making sense in a fashion. In ARR, we were novices to our jobs. In HW, we were Veterans. In SB, we were Masters. Now we're heading into uncharted territory, we're creating things nobody has seen before, we don't have anybody who could teach us how to do any of the stuff we're coming up with, we're literally creating these moves now. We are the Grandmasters, we are the ones who create the skills future generations of our jobs will use. We cannot be taught anything anymore, so we don't need job trainers anymore.