Sanity check - crafting job skip potions?

[Krotoan]

The current culture of mobile gaming is horrendous. The games are full of pay to win aspects and they encourage gambling with real money.

your opinion is just as valid as mine. But I personally believe all the current mobile gaming culture has shown is people allowed to do what they wish will value time over money. You may feel differently about paying to skip mindless grinds if you ever step back and ask yourself how much is an hour of your life really worth?

[Penthea]

your opinion is just as valid as mine. But I personally believe all the current mobile gaming culture has shown is people allowed to do what they wish will value time over money. You may feel differently about paying to skip mindless grinds if you ever step back and ask yourself how much is an hour of your life really worth?

How I feel is I'd rather pay to play a game than pay to not play it. I find value in both the journey and the destination. Those who only find value in destinations often find their joy in gaming is short-lived. Especially if the case is that eliminating the journey also means not doing the content that teaches you how to play well.

I also feel that allowing players to gamble with real money is predatory when it's in games that aren't rated for only adults.

[Barraind]

But I personally believe all the current mobile gaming culture has shown is people allowed to do what they wish will value time over money.

Yeah, thats not it though. the current era of mobile gaming is the asian MMO scene from the late 00's and early 10's.

Theres as many if not more grinds to do, but you're also expected to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the things to do the grinds.

[Mhiro]

Two words:

No thanks.

[Krotoan]

How I feel is I'd rather pay to play a game than pay to not play it. I find value in both the journey and the destination. Those who only find value in destinations often find their joy in gaming is short-lived. Especially if the case is that eliminating the journey also means not doing the content that teaches you how to play well.

I also feel that allowing players to gamble with real money is predatory when it's in games that aren't rated for only adults.

Paying to get to the part you enjoy isn't necessarily paying to get to the end and who's to really say who is playing the "right" way. If you're having fun then it's the right way as long as you aren't hindering someone elses fun generally. Crafting doesn't really have a skill either. You aren't learning timing, or group dynamics, or mechanics, just rotations that have NO time limit.

It's a little like saying people who pay for fastpasses in amusement parks are wrong. Just because they didn't stand in line like everyone else doesn't make the ride any less fun for them and the people who DID stand in line aren't necessarily "earning" the ride, just doing what's necessary to get there.

And once again nobody said it had to be instant cap with gear, you still have to do that last bit of grind and gearing up for true top tier crafts.

and as for children gambling with real money I have some pretty strong opinions and ideas on that one but it's very irrelevant to this topic so I'll just leave it.

Yeah, thats not it though. the current era of mobile gaming is the asian MMO scene from the late 00's and early 10's.

Theres as many if not more grinds to do, but you're also expected to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to get the things to do the grinds.

I guess I don't play those games. I play 3 "gatcha" games and have only spent money (about 30 bucks) on one , once. However in all 3 I'm competitively kitted out and current in story and power levels.

[JunseiKei]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind crafting boost potions. Going from 1 to 70 can be daunting, which is only going to be worse as the years go on. Not everyone wants to craft for monetary reasons. Self sufficiency, for one, but gear repair and overmelding is tied to crafting as well.

[Penthea]

Paying to get to the part you enjoy isn't necessarily paying to get to the end and who's to really say who is playing the "right" way. If you're having fun then it's the right way as long as you aren't hindering someone elses fun generally.

Unlike a lot of mobile games FFXIV wasn't designed with jump potions or similar boosts in mind. So it can be argued that buying them is playing the wrong way in this game.

Crafting doesn't really have a skill either. You aren't learning timing, or group dynamics, or mechanics, just rotations that have NO time limit.

At top tier crafting you really need to know what you're doing to succeed. Or go to a website that tells you what to do. That such sites even exist proves that people don't know what to do often enough to warrant an outside source that guides your entire rotation ability by ability.

Also while low lvl crafting doesn't require skill, it does require patience. Something which seems to be in short supply among a lot of gamers these days.

It's a little like saying people who pay for fastpasses in amusement parks are wrong. Just because they didn't stand in line like everyone else doesn't make the ride any less fun for them and the people who DID stand in line aren't necessarily "earning" the ride, just doing what's necessary to get there.

No it's not. Standing in line doing absolutely nothing isn't the same as crafting items to gain xp. In the first you're doing nothing, in the second you're doing something. In order for it to be the same you would have to somehow gain crafting xp by just standing around for hours doing nothing.

And once again nobody said it had to be instant cap with gear, you still have to do that last bit of grind and gearing up for true top tier crafts.

But that does nothing for the game economy issue. There is a massive economy for crafting and gathering for lvl 20+. The jump potions would ruin it because suddenly a gigantic chunk of what's for sale in the market would become meaningless. Furthermore this would punish players who cannot afford to buy jump potions on top of a sub, because they would be unable to make any decent money until they're high lvl. Crafter jump potions would be pay to win that would ruin the game's economy.

And again I emphasise that crafting is side solo content. It doesn't stop you from progressing in the main part of the game. At least for msq and combat class lvls you can make the argument of "I want to play with my friends in the content they're doing right now" because those two aspects of the game do require potentially significant progress to engage in a specific group activity. Such an argument can't be made for crafting because 99% of it is a solo side activity. You rarely get into a situation like "sorry you can't do this activity with us because your crafting is too low" but you often can for combat classes and msq progression.

[Krotoan]

Unlike a lot of mobile games FFXIV wasn't designed with jump potions or similar boosts in mind. So it can be argued that buying them is playing the wrong way in this game.

Yet here we have jump potions for the actual Main Line in the game. Are all the people using them playing the game wrong?

At top tier crafting you really need to know what you're doing to succeed. Or go to a website that tells you what to do. That such sites even exist proves that people don't know what to do often enough to warrant an outside source that guides your entire rotation ability by ability.

Also while low lvl crafting doesn't require skill, it does require patience. Something which seems to be in short supply among a lot of gamers these days.

That really has nothing to do with whether or not a skip pot is something we should have. It's about avoiding a lengthy and mindless grind.
Patience is one thing, wasting your own time is another. People are impatient because everything today is instant: Emails, texts, deliveries, streamable media, etc etc. Patience for actual life is an important skill to cultivate, patience for entertainment I'm already paying for the privilege to access? less so.

No it's not. Standing in line doing absolutely nothing isn't the same as crafting items to gain xp. In the first you're doing nothing, in the second you're doing something. In order for it to be the same you would have to somehow gain crafting xp by just standing around for hours doing nothing.

My crafting from 1-50 was a matter of gathering mats by purchase or by gathering, then using those mats to make PILES of junk that was only useful to make the next step in the crafting grind. The vast majority of that "leveling" was literally sitting in one place while the game played itself and I quick-crafted. I usually watched videos while this happened. I was not enriched or challenged.

But that does nothing for the game economy issue. There is a massive economy for crafting and gathering for lvl 20+. The jump potions would ruin it because suddenly a gigantic chunk of what's for sale in the market would become meaningless. Furthermore this would punish players who cannot afford to buy jump potions on top of a sub, because they would be unable to make any decent money until they're high lvl. Crafter jump potions would be pay to win that would ruin the game's economy.

And again I emphasise that crafting is side solo content. It doesn't stop you from progressing in the main part of the game. At least for msq and combat class lvls you can make the argument of "I want to play with my friends in the content they're doing right now" because those two aspects of the game do require potentially significant progress to engage in a specific group activity. Such an argument can't be made for crafting because 99% of it is a solo side activity. You rarely get into a situation like "sorry you can't do this activity with us because your crafting is too low" but you often can for combat classes and msq progression.

Meaningless how? I don't understand why letting people craft later items devalues those items. Jump pots wouldn't make lower level crafts useless either because people WILL continue to level the "normal" way. Everyone doesn't buy skip pots. The people not skipping would still make money from the others leveling and the people at higher tiers who needed lower level mats as stepping stones. The economy would.. CHANGE maybe but I'm not seeing it be ruined.

Level and skip pots weren't exclusively made to cater to people who wanted to play with their friends. They are at least partially there for people to play current content rather than old content. Between that and the fact that just because it's solo activity doesn't mean it should have some sort of exclusivity to it, your reasoning has some very arbitrary rules to it.

[CraftOs]

Doesn’t matter how long this debate goes on, it’s 99% not going to happen. The 1% being if Live Letter Part 2 trolls us and announces crafter jump potions, which, is still a possibility. But being realistic here, not gonna happen, at least not on NA/EU servers.

[Krotoan]

Doesn’t matter how long this debate goes on, it’s 99% not going to happen. The 1% being if Live Letter Part 2 trolls us and announces crafter jump potions, which, is still a possibility. But being realistic here, not gonna happen, at least not on NA/EU servers.

*shrug*

Realistically most ideas on this board won't be realized either. That doesn't mean we can't explore them.