Can we just get rid of Egi’s, now?

[ADVSS]

"Well guess youre not powerful enough to summon ramuh,,,bummer. I KNOW! lets go learn how to summon Bahamut!"
HW summoner quest in a nutshell

[Llugen]

The reason they don't want to add any more Egi (Ramuh, Leviathan, etc) is because it is unfair to make one job out of 18 have to learn additional rotations/skills over the other jobs, making it even more complicated and less accessible than it already is, especially in the eyes of newer players. This makes sense, but the least they could have done up until this point is just give us the additional Egi glamours, so rather than Garuda being the caster Ifrit being the melee etc there was just ranged/melee/tank Egi and then you can glamour whichever Egi over each that you so chose.

In the event that they decide to delete the Egis completely and go with Demi primals instead, I vaguely feel like the same thing would apply. I wouldn't be super satisfied if there were 6+ Demi primals to rotate through before getting to Bahamut, and while I'm at it, each only having one nuke button and spamming Ruin II to make them all autoattack wouldn't be very enjoyable, either. If they were going to go with this system, the rest of the class would also need a rework to get rid of DoTs and Ruin. (This is probably also why they've just said screw it up until this point and stuck with what they have)

[Kalise]

The reason they don't want to add any more Egi (Ramuh, Leviathan, etc) is because it is unfair to make one job out of 18 have to learn additional rotations/skills over the other jobs

In what game do any of the Egi cause someone to have to learn additional rotations/skills?

Ifrit... You just keep on Sic and he just automatically does his thing.

Titan... You just keep on Sic and he just automatically does his thing.

Garuda... If you want to maximize DPS you can toggle her between Sic and Obey to use Contagion. Or you can just keep her on Sic and she just automatically does her thing. (I'm still not fully aware of the specific interaction that is supposed to be exploited by the whole juggling Sic/Obey so that you put her on Sic when Contagion is about to come back up so she casts it faster? In my experience doing that she simply casts Shockwave > Aerial Slash > Contagion and thus casts it slower than if Shockwave and Aerial Slash were already on CD because of casting them earlier due to being on Sic)

At a guess, I'd say Ramuh you'd just keep on Sic and he'd automatically do his thing.

While Leviathan, you'd probably do something like... Keep him on Sic and he'd automatically do his thing.

Though Shiva on the other hand... She would instead be kept on Sic and she'd automatically do her thing!

The more logical reason for them not adding more Egi, is probably because they would have to actually create new Egi models as well as several new skill animations for the Egi to use.

I wouldn't be super satisfied if there were 6+ Demi primals to rotate through before getting to Bahamut

To be fair, probably the better way to do 6+ Primals would be simply make it so that you use different ones per Bahamut rotation.

I.e. Ifrit > Titan > Bahamut > Garuda > Ramuh > Bahamut > Shiva > Good King Moggle Mog XII > Bahamut > Odin > Behemoth > Bahamut > Ravana > Sephirot > Bahamut > Sophia > Zurvan > Bahamut > Susano > Lakshmi > Bahamut

Okay... Maybe that's a touch excessive... (Especially with non-canon Primals such as Odin, Behemoth, Sephirot, Sophia and Zurvan whom not everyone will fight)

But, it would allow for many Demi-Primals without necessarily causing Bahamut phases to be really long to get to and also without needing to worry as much about people just using the "Best 2" over and over. You can simply give each individual one a cooldown long enough that it would allow for a seamless rotation without it being usable repeatedly.

With button bloat being the only real concern... Though... If due to the lack of being focused around "DWT" and possibly some changes to Arcanist, Summoner were to get a new unique Job Gauge that would let them "Cycle" through summons and then actually summon them using a single button (Thus only requiring 3 buttons total, to cycle forwards, cycle backwards and summon) for infinite numbers of Primal summons with minimal button usage...

Though, I think the issue with that sort of thought would be the same one for more Egi... More models, more skill animations, more work... (Though, I guess, most of it would be done already for many of them? Since you'd just need to take the existing boss and skills and shrink them down a bit, then put an aetherial style texture over them similar to how Bahamut is all blue and glowy. With a few minor tweaks here and there for Enkindle skills)

[ADVSS]

Made my day! lol The best thing about Demi Bahamut is that i dont have to worry about swiftcast>raising him when the boss makes the room a checkerboard of Aoes. either. Joking aside, the egis are pretty troublesome in bigger content. Id rather see SMN get further in the demi way of doing things(sustain could just add x seconds to their timeout) rather than the way its been pre SB. I remember when arcanist was debuted for 2.0 and even then everyone was like "egi wha? what the heck? thats not a summoner"

[zeylos]

I want them to just get rid of Egi’s full stop and re-introduce them as Demi-Primals fully. I remember when I first done the Austerities of Fire quest to obtain Ifrit, my excitement was through the roof, until I saw the gross flaming foetus that spawned instead of the hell-demon I was expecting... and to add insult to injury, our version was even MORE pathetic and tiny, yikes...

So yeah, maybe now after seeing how successful Demi-Bahamuts implementation has gone, can’t the devs just go back and modify the quests to give us Demi summons that actually resemble the Primals much more? With the ability to change the Primals size as we can with Demi-Bahamut, that’s already resolved the argument of them appearing too big and blocking people’s screens. It just feels like Summoner’s presentation in 14 is a hot mess and it’s only getting more noticeable. The best way to resolve this imo would be to double down on Demi Primals since the reception Summoner gained when we saw Demi-Bahamut for the first time proves how desired they are over the faulty and, frankly, gross looking Egi’s...

I know many people like the egi’s or want it to stay a pet job, but I can’t be the only one who feels it’s a bit all over the place in its presentation. What do ya’ll think?

Honestly ff14 SMN dosen't feel like a SMN it feels like poison mage. I wish they made the SMN be an actual SMN honestly

[Llugen]

It's not about being left on sic, it's about having 6+ additional abilities over the rest of the jobs that you have to understand and to know when best to use and optimize. Pretty unfair no matter which way you slice it, see also: SMN is already one of the least accessible jobs and making it even more complicated would exacerbate that issue.

[Daralii]

"Well guess youre not powerful enough to summon ramuh,,,bummer. I KNOW! lets go learn how to summon Bahamut!"
HW summoner quest in a nutshell

The explanation was that trances are just that much more efficient- invoking a primal's power and using the summoner's body as a conduit instead of creating and maintaining a construct to do so. That's why I wish the 70 quest actually explained Demi-Bahamut at all instead of just saying it's the ultimate summoner art and Prin going to sleep.

[Eloah]

Egi's have been there since the start of...
And then of course, add more summons...

Oh, ummm... how can I say this without making it seem like I'm not understanding.

As you said they were there from the begining, and the pet and SMN were on equal footing. When HW was being released people were excited to see what the pets were gonna get and new summons as well. We got nothing. Thankfully, that changed in SB with the demi-system, as the pet got a bit more focus. Most people when they hear the word Egi, automatically think about their appearance. Which, while a topic all itself, I don't think is what the OP meant. He was talking about their implementation.

But yeah, that's what I meant. Had SE worked on their system from the get go, we wouldn't really be in this mess. Heck, the Demi-system is great and that's attached to the Summoner not the pet. Hopefully the job reveals will deliver something nice, since SMN was one of the jobs to get a big overhaul.

[Kalise]

It's not about being left on sic, it's about having 6+ additional abilities over the rest of the jobs that you have to understand and to know when best to use and optimize. Pretty unfair no matter which way you slice it, see also: SMN is already one of the least accessible jobs and making it even more complicated would exacerbate that issue.

Except that what I was trying to impress onto you, was that Egi's skills don't really matter.

They're such minor changes in DPS output even when you know about the 2 skills that actually do something (Radiant Shield and Contagion) to the point where Egi's are pretty much "Pick which one looks coolest"

It's far, far, far less intensive than say... Ninjutsu, which not only are 7 additional skills you need to know about and know when to use (Well... 6 because lulHyoton) but you need to know the 2-3 skill combination necessary to even access the skill.

If Egi are balanced, it's just a case of "I think X Egi looks cool, I'll use that one" with maybe, some min-maxers going "Teeeeechnically, this Egi is 0.1 DPS increase in the circumstances where you have X, Y and Z in your party and juggle control types to make the thing do what you want it to 0.001 seconds faster if the wonky AI works!"

With Ninjutsu, you have to know when most of their optimal usage is, which combinations access each skill (Or at least 1 combination, but you'd also want to know other combination incase you misorder something and need to salvage to combination and get SOMETHING other than Rabbit Medium) as well as having a CD that puts you on the spot (Literally) and have to pick the 2 best options (Since Ten Chi Jin specifically states you can't use the same Ninjutsu twice)

Heck, there's even the possibility of Ninja's getting a 4th Mudra! As it was featured in the Ninja job quests (Also, Yugiri appears to know it if going off the Elidibenos fight RP section) adding further complexity and additional skills into the mix (Even if it only capped out at 3 step combinations, that's still going to be like 3+ extra skills)

Also, in what way is SMN not accessible?

Seems pretty accessible to me. Put up DoTs. Spam Ruin. Use Ruin IV when it procs. During Bahamut, spam Ruin II.

That's gotta be one of the most accessible jobs in the game? You don't have to care about positioning like with mDPS. You only use oGCD's 3 times a minute while you have Aetherflow (Which have a relatively simple priority Fester > Painflare. With Bane being used on large AoE and Fester being skipped)) as opposed to rDPS. You don't have to actually manage any resources (Not even MP) unlike other Mages.

[Cled-cat]

Most people when they hear the word Egi, automatically think about their appearance. Which, while a topic all itself, I don't think is what the OP meant. He was talking about their implementation.

But yeah, that's what I meant. Had SE worked on their system from the get go, we wouldn't really be in this mess. Heck, the Demi-system is great and that's attached to the Summoner not the pet. Hopefully the job reveals will deliver something nice, since SMN was one of the jobs to get a big overhaul.

Honestly their appearance is a big issue in itself too, I wouldn’t be half as disappointed in them if they actually looked impressive... they’re just rubbish all around; in both performance and aesthetics.

Also, where did you hear SMN was meant to get a big overhaul from? I haven’t heard that myself, would be awesome though!