Gender/Racial Locking in 2019

[LittleChickenNugget]

Frankly I'm happy there are limits to what each gender can wear. And fortunately the people who want to parade their males in bras and heels are not the majority so I'm not worried about Yoshi caving in any time soon. They struggled enough with the bunny outfits from the GS, I doubt they would take it this far.

[WhiteArchmage]

Ill try to keept his brief: This is the "tabula Rasa" position - men and women are blank slates at birth and are conditioned by society. To quickly illustrate why this argument fails without to much effort, the core position of Trans Identity is that it is something people are born into. A genetic factor. Since this is the case, explain how can Trans people be Trans if men and women are blank slates?

I'll admit to being behind in my trans reading, and there's some debate right now on if trans individuals even need corrective surgery (from which I'll stay away because, as said, I'm behind on my trans-issues reading) my original point was about how social characteristics that we consider "manly" or "womanly", especially as how clothing and personal appearance are seen (it IS what the thread is about), have been socially constructed instead of being biological.

You mention erasing homosexuality, but pushing that Gender isnt related to the biological and some of what we do is influenced by our sex and genes comes across as erasing Trans people. Itd be like saying a person's sexuality is purely societal, that people choose their sexuality.

I mentioned erasing homosexuality because the quote was "men and women complement one another", which heavily implies male/male and female/female relationships don't exist or don't count. I'll avoid getting into an argument about it because it's besides the point. Although it's been noted that (visible) homo-, bi-, and/or pan- sexuality is more prevalent in places where it's more accepted... which is sort of a chicken and egg kind of dilemma.

Humans are not binary when it comes sexes, but we are heavily bimodal - sex is a 'spectrum, but an extremely vast majority of the population are discernibly male and female genetically. This is the same for any other genetic variations that are not part of the average (which keep getting brought up.) Even those that do have genetic variances, most of those still display outward sex characteristics that are predominately Male or Female. The issue is framing, though. On one side of the argument, people are saying flat out there are only two sexes cause of Chromosomes. They are wrong, as intersex is a thing. The otherside, however, is playing up intersex and other genetic outliers in a fashion to say "Sex is a spectrum so saying male and female is irrelevant." This is disingenuous (and wrong) as it seeks to muddy the water by implying a false truth with facts taken out of context. The false truth being that there is no such thing as two predominant sexes and that everything is interchangeable.

I am agreeing with this point, it's mostly how we percieve said sexes socially (i.e. gender) that we get into further problems. I wasn't about to do a whole essay on the OF (there's still some papers I haven't read and I'd need a refresher on others).

That said, this is likely an argument that has no bearing on the actual thread

No one in this thread has done that, however. Even WhiteArchmage's post is more of a misguided oversimplification than anything else. Granted, I'm not a fan of taking neutral positions like this; occasionally there just isn't a grey area to sit in, and this, imo, is an example of one.

Sorry! I didn't want to pull all my saved articles and look through my books for a forum post but here we are lol

Same. I wanna see Roe men in cute AF heels.

+1

[Enla]

I understand why they don't retroactively go back and make things cross glamour in regards to old items. That's a lot of work for not a lot of pay-off quite frankly, especially in regards to older glamours. However I would like to see them allow glamours across gender going forward. There's been a few too many times I've honestly preferred the male version of an outfit and wished I could wear it on my female character or vice versa.

[Nyvara]

Every time I look at the forums there is another thread like this! Gender blah blah, sexist blah blah.

"But why do you read it then?!" You may ask. Because it's like watching the Jerry springier show or a train wreck, try as you might you can't.look.away!

For everyone's sanity mostly mine anytime a thread devolves into lectures and debates on gender they should be locked!

[whiskeybravo]

Laugh if you want, but it's true. A woman that's had a hysterectomy is still a woman. A man that's had a vasectomy is still a man. Fertility or lack there of doesn't define someone's sex/gender. But hey, if this is the hill you want to die on, go right ahead.

You seem to at least be an expert on taking quotes out of context.

Even though it wasn't my comment, Reproductive organs =/= Fertility. Why is the woman still a woman? Why is the man still a man? Because they still have the bodily parts to make them such, obviously. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who aren't fertile but have never had those procedures done. Very poor example on your part.

Besides, you (and others) seem to be glossing over the fact that reproductive organs aren't the only thing that makes up gender. WhiteArchMage seems to trample on the idea that throughout history certain attributes have been associated with a particular gender. For example females being more creative and empathetic, males being more logical or prone to violence. What W.A.M fails to point out, in some ancient cultures it was considered ideal for a person to achieve a balance of aspects from both genders to be complete. Women embracing the attributes of men, men embracing the attributes of women to achieve a higher state of consciousness. I think the most historical information in this regard comes from ancient Egypt, but the concept is mimicked in some modern cultures a well. Whether these are truly in nature or whether they are formed by society is rather irrelevant - the fact remains that sexes do indeed exhibit different behavior within a fairly predictable pattern.

A man wants to wear women's clothing, but what makes a particular piece of cloth suitable for a woman to wear to begin with? Your imagination?

Stop relying on your high school biology education. Science evolves as we learn more.

It's true, we have much better technology in this day and age than ever before. Gender Dysphoria has likely been a medical condition since the beginning of time, but where we used to be able to do nothing about it - perhaps there are things we can do now. I still don't see any evidence what-so-ever that would remove this from being a medical condition. It is what it is, we all get dealt a different hand in life.

[AngeliouxRein]

Of all the MMORPGs I have played, never have I seen real-world issues be brought into a game forum so much... And this even includes all the true gender locked games I have played.I'm just going to assume everyone is just bored out of their minds at this point.

[Zarkovitch]

I cannot to wait to see in 2020 what would be next controversial!

[Jin-]

Stop spreading your american gender politics bs here

[guardin]

Not another one.

you say this but we just got ANOTHER thread talking about butt sliders like cmon pervy people yet when people post something like this everyone boos and cries

[rachcouture]

You seem to at least be an expert on taking quotes out of context.

Because 'Hahahahahaha' is so much to go on.

Even though it wasn't my comment, Reproductive organs =/= Fertility. Why is the woman still a woman? Why is the man still a man? Because they still have the bodily parts to make them such, obviously. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who aren't fertile but have never had those procedures done. Very poor example on your part.

1. It's exactly what you meant, and you know it. Don't backtrack.
2. Body parts don't define it, either. If it were that convenient, transgender and intersex people simply wouldn't exist.
3. It's a perfect example. You just don't like it because it doesn't support your ignorance.

Besides, you (and others) seem to be glossing over the fact that reproductive organs aren't the only thing that makes up gender. WhiteArchMage seems to trample on the idea that throughout history certain attributes have been associated with a particular gender. For example females being more creative and empathetic, males being more logical or prone to violence. What W.A.M fails to point out, in some ancient cultures it was considered ideal for a person to achieve a balance of aspects from both genders to be complete. Women embracing the attributes of men, men embracing the attributes of women to achieve a higher state of consciousness. I think the most historical information in this regard comes from ancient Egypt, but the concept is mimicked in some modern cultures a well. Whether these are truly in nature or whether they are formed by society is rather irrelevant - the fact remains that sexes do indeed exhibit different behavior within a fairly predictable pattern.

Not mentioning something because it wasn't even part of the discussion is a far cry from glossing over.

What you are discussing are socially ingrained gender roles; that is why you see an obvious pattern. There is, however, ultimately nothing biologically innate about any of those personality qualities whatsoever. A man can be soft and an excellent caregiver (single fathers), and a woman can be incredibly violent and sociopathic (one of the many female serial killers to exist throughout).

A man wants to wear women's clothing, but what makes a particular piece of cloth suitable for a woman to wear to begin with? Your imagination?

It's subjective.

It's true, we have much better technology in this day and age than ever before. Gender Dysphoria has likely been a medical condition since the beginning of time, but where we used to be able to do nothing about it - perhaps there are things we can do now. I still don't see any evidence what-so-ever that would remove this from being a medical condition. It is what it is, we all get dealt a different hand in life.

It's not a medical condition. Medical procedures can, however, help. There is a big difference.

Stop spreading your american gender politics bs here

It's always funny to read comments like this. OP just wanted more options. It was the naysayers that turned it into a political discussion.