The mentor system needs to be reevaulated.

[Afrit_Alchemy]

I think this is just identifying the problem. The problem is that the crown is active when not engaging in a mentor role. Players who have qualified for Mentor, for ANY reason, should have the crown only turned on when they are "in mentor" mode, so players can engage with players with the crown turned on because it says "I'm available to help"

What seems to happen, or so I hear, is that a small amount of people just want the crown because it's a form of completion. Yay, you got the crown, now are you going to help people or just use it to get an extra roulette queue. Because if it's the latter, entering any DF with the crown on should minimally force the mentor to be a mentor or turn it on/off from the DF to begin with. That can be accomplished by locking out the vote-kick and vote-abandon options from players with mentor status on, because if you enter as a mentor, you should be able to finish it, even if the party is terrible. People tend to complain that they get hard content with the Mentor's queue, when that is in fact the point, and that's the most abandoned content.

On the flip side of that, players who have not completed the content, should not be able to enter with the Mentor crown on. It would help a lot more if the game actually kept internal statistics, basically giving players a S/A/B/C rating in a certain job with certain content, and not permitting the Mentor to be a Mentor in content if they can't achieve at least an A rating in it with a full PUG. If they can only get a B rating, they will only be placed in PUG's with other B-or-better's without the mentor crown. If a player can't get a C or hasn't completed the content, then they will be shown as a newbie.

But what happens instead is people just get the crown and wear it all the time, mentoring or not, bad mood or not.

Personally speaking, I usually keep mine active 90% of the time I'm online because I pretty much always ready to help others. I do apologize if I sound like a goody two-shoes. ^^;

[Sandoria]

What a sad story. I'm sorry your friend went through this. My person experience with Mentors in the Novice channel are pretty much in line with this. Feels like the people who chose mentor are just there to farm a crown or talk down to people. When I returned to the game after an extended break, some 'Mentor" threatened to remove me when I asked if anyone knew of any good Free Companies for casual/new people. Told me basically any kind of FC recruitment talk was NOT ALLOWED.

I feel like Mentor's should lose the status if they don't queue up with any actual novices in a space of time. That might clear the channel for people who actually DO want to help.

[LadyKairi]

Told me basically any kind of FC recruitment talk was NOT ALLOWED.

I can’t speak for your server, but this is a rule on lamia’s NN, because then the chat would get clustered with FC pitches/messages. Before, it made it nearly impossible to get questions answered, because people kept putting recruitment messages completely drowning out player questions.

[SturmChurro]

I have dug up this thread, rather than create my own.

A bad experience on my alt, has opened my eyes to just how abysmal the state of this system is. If you want a point of reference, and context I have already posted about the exchange in the "Tales of Duty Finder" thread. Summarized I was berated by a mentor on my alt, I asked how I could properly report someone who abuses the title of "mentor", I was baited in the 'Novice Network', then I was threatened in tell. I was kicked out of the 'Novice Network' by a random mentor for explaining my frustration with the system as a whole, all the while they (mentors in general) hypocritically talk about anything AND everything in the supposed 'Novice Network'. There own personal chatroom. The 'Novice Network' is being subverted by these kinds of people. The sheer malice is appalling, and eye opening. I will be renouncing my mentorship status, and I will be staying as far away as possible from the 'Novice Network'. I was never a perfect mentor, I didn't help enough, and usually only when asked, so by my own standards I am undeserving of the title anyway.

The system rightfully needs a complete overhaul from the ground up - if not dissolved in it's entirety. That isn't to say there are not good mentors out there, there are. I am not denying that fact. I am stating that the many bad ones, overshadow those that are good, make a mockery of the system, and use it not as a means to "mentor", or assist new/returning players, but is used, rather, as a popularity contest. A pretty golden crown next to their name; bragging rights (if you can even claim that). The requirements are too low, the expectations are too low, the fact that it gives you any crown you want when you meet the (laughable) threshold to become a mentor. A crown, give me a break. I am not a game designer I will not claim that I have a complete plan laid out on how to overhaul, and ultimately improve the system, but the fact remains - it needs to be done.

There is a new expansion coming out, new/returning players will be coming in droves. They will be greeted, and encouraged to join this 'Novice Network' that isn't worthy of them. Get it done. I always knew it needed an overhaul, but I have never felt so appalled as now, after witnessing firsthand the malice a "mentor" is capable of. Threats, harrassment, abuse of power.

[Selova]

snip.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I didn't expect my thread to see the light of day again but I still stand by the fact that the mentor system needs to be redesigned.


Whether that's adding more steep requirements or removing the bonuses mentor status gives you. I've been a mentor since mid HW and I'll always help those that need it.


Sadly a lot of mentors out there dont abide by this and give those of us that actually like and wanting to help other players a bad name.


It would be great if we could change this ourselves as a community, but it doesnt look like that's going to happen anytime soon.

[LadyKairi]

I have dug up this thread, rather than create my own.

A bad experience on my alt, has opened my eyes to just how abysmal the state of this system is. If you want a point of reference, and context I have already posted about the exchange in the "Tales of Duty Finder" thread. Summarized I was berated by a mentor on my alt, I asked how I could properly report someone who abuses the title of "mentor", I was baited in the 'Novice Network', then I was threatened in tell. I was kicked out of the 'Novice Network' by a random mentor for explaining my frustration with the system as a whole, all the while they (mentors in general) hypocritically talk about anything AND everything in the supposed 'Novice Network'. There own personal chatroom. The 'Novice Network' is being subverted by these kinds of people. The sheer malice is appalling, and eye opening. I will be renouncing my mentorship status, and I will be staying as far away as possible from the 'Novice Network'. I was never a perfect mentor, I didn't help enough, and usually only when asked, so by my own standards I am undeserving of the title anyway.

The system rightfully needs a complete overhaul from the ground up - if not dissolved in it's entirety. That isn't to say there are not good mentors out there, there are. I am not denying that fact. I am stating that the many bad ones, overshadow those that are good, make a mockery of the system, and use it not as a means to "mentor", or assist new/returning players, but is used, rather, as a popularity contest. A pretty golden crown next to their name; bragging rights (if you can even claim that). The requirements are too low, the expectations are too low, the fact that it gives you any crown you want when you meet the (laughable) threshold to become a mentor. A crown, give me a break. I am not a game designer I will not claim that I have a complete plan laid out on how to overhaul, and ultimately improve the system, but the fact remains - it needs to be done.

There is a new expansion coming out, new/returning players will be coming in droves. They will be greeted, and encouraged to join this 'Novice Network' that isn't worthy of them. Get it done. I always knew it needed an overhaul, but I have never felt so appalled as now, after witnessing firsthand the malice a "mentor" is capable of. Threats, harrassment, abuse of power.

While I’m sorry you had such a bad experience on your server, not all NN are that bad. I know on my server I saw lots of people get help that they needed and then some. Yeah drama has happened in there here and there, but the vast majority of the time it was focus on helping people. It’s a shame your NN is full of people who just don’t care.

[Selova]

While I’m sorry you had such a bad experience on your server, not all NN are that bad. I know on my server I saw lots of people get help that they needed and then some. Yeah drama has happened in there here and there, but the vast majority of the time it was focus on helping people. It’s a shame your NN is full of people who just don’t care.

Also this. I know from experience that at least on my server newer and returning players are helped out quite often. It just sucks when your personal experiences are sullied by those who clearly don't care.

[SturmChurro]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. I didn't expect my thread to see the light of day again but I still stand by the fact that the mentor system needs to be redesigned.


Whether that's adding more steep requirements or removing the bonuses mentor status gives you. I've been a mentor since mid HW and I'll always help those that need it.


Sadly a lot of mentors out there dont abide by this and give tgosecif us that actually like and wanting to help other players a bad name.


It would be great if we could change this ourselves as a community, but it doesnt look like that's going to happen anytime soon.

I have given it some thought, and I am of the opinion now that the entire mentor program should be dissolved in it's entirety. Helpful people will help, whether they have the title of mentor or not. Remove the crown, and "prestige" associated with it. It would weed out the people who want it for that, and the people who want to help of their own volition will help. Keep a 'newbie' chat where they can help. The fact that a mentor could just kick me is appalling, and eye-opening. This same mentor according to conflicting reports (referenced in another thread) is known for this, yet he still apparently had the power to kick, and is still a mentor. This is unacceptable.

[Selova]

I have given it some thought, and I am of the opinion now that the entire mentor program should be dissolved in it's entirety. Helpful people will help, whether they have the title of mentor or not. Remove the crown, and "prestige" associated with it. It would weed out the people who want it for that, and the people who want to help of their own volition will help. Keep a 'newbie' chat where they can help. The fact that a mentor could just kick me is appalling.

I honestly don't have a issue with it's removal entirely either. It's more or less just a outdated relic of a system that just exists for the sake of existing at this point.

[SturmChurro]

I honestly don't have a issue with it's removal entirely either. It's more or less just a outdated relic of a system that just exists for the sake of existing at this point.

I am sorry to the people who genuinely use the Mentor program, and the 'Novice Network' as it was intended, but it has been co-opted by people who have no intention whatsoever of actually being a mentor, actually helping others, or anything as it was advertised. All they want is the shiny glam crown, and easy mentor roulletes for their pretty little mount that they DO NOT deserve. I do not think there is any way to actually rebuild the system, and prevent abuse, so the system should just be removed. It is flawed at it's core.