Dispensers of fiery explosions, light me up... with your ideas for BLM in 5.0

[Kabooa]

Sounds fun, so long as I can reposition the orb once it's summoned, ideally with the same key.

Though I'd also be fine with this being a mechanic attached to all Fire spells, as that'd accomplish the same diversification of ability choices in AoE, but with more nuance in place of macrorotation alone.

My thought is you have 3 Polyglot spenders.

Foul is just a bog standard high end single/aoe Nuke. Your go to.

Neo-Flare and Neo-Freeze both provide a movement option with Polyglot, an opportunity to weave OGCDs, and a significant AF/UI transition / reset.

Neo-Flare is the cleaver / concentrated burst-window option. Foul requires no set up, but Neo-Flare properly utilized is effectively returning Raging Strikes to the Black mage and letting them excel where they should - on tightly clustered enemies.

Neo-Freeze by extension is a building nuke, best utilized with two back to back polyglots and proper utilization of your current Proc status. It also gives an appropriately powered Ice Spell for those who want to sling boulders of ice. In my mind, the ideal Neo-Freeze window looks something like - End AF phase, Neo Freeze, Blizzard 4, Foul -> Tcloud. This should have Neo Freeze ending about the time Fire 3 is starting up for a 910 potency nuke to end your UI phase.

[Lauront]

I like the idea. The fire one reminds me of that crystal mages got in WoW, which was a fun mechanic. As long as it’s easy to re-position I’d be all for it.

[Archwizard]

You can easily fit TC into AF, so I don't think that's relevant.

Just spitballing here, have Flare and Freeze change while Polyglot is active. Would need a leveling trait as well.

Neo-Flare
Instant Cast
Effect: Consumes Polyglot. Summons an Orb of Flame over the target Enemy. Striking this orb with a Fire Spell deals the Spell's damage to all targets within a 8y range, dealing 120% to the first target, 90% to the second target, 60% to the third target, and 30% to all subsequent targets. The orb lasts for 15 seconds.

Neo-Freeze
Instant Cast
Effect: Consumes Polyglot. Places the caster into Umbral Ice 3. Summons an Orb of Frost over yourself for 9 seconds. At the end of this duration, Neo Freeze strikes the closest enemy for 700 potency ice damage. Each Ice, Thunder, or Non-Elemental spell cast during the Orb of Frost's duration increases potency by 10%.

"But what about foul"

Dunno. I'm sure 4 other level up break points could have room to make foul better.

My concern is that with too many effects competing to consume Polyglot -- especially multiple fulfilling a direct-damage role -- we're going to end up with at least one spell we'll treat as extraneous, or at worst end up with one we'd want to prioritize casting over all others because it maths out better.

My thought is you have 3 Polyglot spenders.

Foul is just a bog standard high end single/aoe Nuke. Your go to.

Neo-Flare and Neo-Freeze both provide a movement option with Polyglot, an opportunity to weave OGCDs, and a significant AF/UI transition / reset.

Neo-Flare is the cleaver / concentrated burst-window option. Foul requires no set up, but Neo-Flare properly utilized is effectively returning Raging Strikes to the Black mage and letting them excel where they should - on tightly clustered enemies.

Neo-Freeze by extension is a building nuke, best utilized with two back to back polyglots and proper utilization of your current Proc status. It also gives an appropriately powered Ice Spell for those who want to sling boulders of ice. In my mind, the ideal Neo-Freeze window looks something like - End AF phase, Neo Freeze, Blizzard 4, Foul -> Tcloud. This should have Neo Freeze ending about the time Fire 3 is starting up for a 910 potency nuke to end your UI phase.

Even treating them as movement alternatives to Foul, you can hold Polyglot for up to 30 seconds before it's wasted and I doubt you'll spend 30 seconds running without stopping to cast, unless there's nothing to cast on in the first place.

Bearing in mind that the "ideal Neo-Freeze window" forgets the existence of Scathe (and the base potency of Neo-Freeze is higher than Foul in single-target), you have no reason to hold a Foul for it since Neo-Freeze only increases a flat percentage for each non-Fire spellcast and doesn't provide any boon to that Foul itself.

[Kabooa]

Bearing in mind that the "ideal Neo-Freeze window" forgets the existence of Scathe (and the base potency of Neo-Freeze is higher than Foul in single-target), you have no reason to hold a Foul for it since Neo-Freeze only increases a flat percentage for each non-Fire spellcast and doesn't provide any boon to that Foul itself.

Having to not use scathe is reason enough to hold a foul for it. Scathe is garbage.

[Archwizard]

Scathe is garbage.

It's also one of the few skills we have with a cast time lower than our GCD, and you made Neo-Freeze dependent on number -- not value -- of casts.

And the only attack we can consistently cast while moving. What did you say was Neo-Freeze for again?

[Kabooa]

It's also one of the few skills we have with a cast time lower than our GCD, and you made Neo-Freeze dependent on number -- not value -- of casts.

And the only attack we can consistently cast while moving. What did you say was Neo-Freeze for again?

I'd rather greed another fire 1 than ever use Scathe.

Using Scathe is the equivalent of admitting you lost. Unlike literally every other Caster and Healer, Scathe isn't a minor downgrade, it's significant, and should be ignored.

[Shurrikhan]

My concern is that with too many effects competing to consume Polyglot -- especially multiple fulfilling a direct-damage role -- we're going to end up with at least one spell we'll treat as extraneous, or at worst end up with one we'd want to prioritize casting over all others because it maths out better.

A "best choice" doesn't have to be consistent, though. So long as it is affected by timing with surrounding rotation, you'd have a balancing compromise between "best" and "most immediate" (i.e. more total uses per fight) in pursuit of "most total damage (dealt by all spenders over the course of a fight)". Imbalance isn't actually so monolithic as you seem to be assuming here. There can be best choices at given moments without forcing a consistent "best choice" that would trim our effective skill count. Before a strengthened AF phase (LL, Balance, Arrow, or Convert), for instance, Neo-Flare would almost certainly be best; if you have to delay a AF phase for an upcoming add, or need to lightning spread, Neo-Freeze is best. Otherwise Foul.

Even treating them as movement alternatives to Foul, you can hold Polyglot for up to 30 seconds before it's wasted and I doubt you'll spend 30 seconds running without stopping to cast, unless there's nothing to cast on in the first place.

This is the largest issue, but other mechanics can easily be put into place to influence this, pushing additional urgency such that when A, X is best, when B, Y is best, and when able to do either, Z is best.


Aside (@Kabooa):
I don't really think BLM needs back its Raging Strike phase. The tDPS it grants any damage boost (TA, Contagion, BL, FR, HC, or whatever else) is already huge. I'd rather just see a lower CD on Convert, honestly, and maintain the baseline damage readiness we have now.

[Archwizard]

A "best choice" doesn't have to be consistent, though.

True, but as you said, the ability to hold Polyglot is the largest obstacle to this.

Like, let's look at SMN's Aetherflow skills: Fester, Bane, Painflare, Energy Siphon. Each one has a clear, distinct purpose for separate jobs -- single-target burst, AoE opener, AoE burst, MP recovery -- and the design of them is such that you're really more fighting against time to spend 3 in under 45 seconds.
The difference here, is that Foul is both applicable to multiple encounters -- our second-most powerful single-target and AoE skill -- and singular in its use, nuking. The only way to fit another single-target or AoE (or gods forbid, multi-purpose) nuke skill in the kit is to make them better based on your position within your rotation, but the fact you can hold Polyglot means you will make the attempt to wait until the point where it is ideal to use the most powerful one for your encounter, because you only have to spend the one before the timer next comes up.

Bear in mind, the way Yoshi's team designs skills favors simplicity and straightforwardness -- that's why we have simple numbers like "Potency", so players don't get tricked by hidden values or have to overthink their rotation. The proposal to have not just one, but two new competitors for Polyglot, used for the same situation, in a system where you must make a split-second decision on which will be better for the current phase of the encounter, without making it as obvious a choice as RDM or SMN? Completely goes against the known philosophies for complication's sake. Not to mention it would require a major rework to fit additional skills in, purely for the aesthetic of launching a missile that shoots smaller missiles.

If Polyglot were to get additional uses, I think we'd be better-suited having skills that don't attempt to situationally fulfill the same "nuke" role within our kit.

[Kabooa]

True, but as you said, the ability to hold Polyglot is the largest obstacle to this.

Like, let's look at SMN's Aetherflow skills: Fester, Bane, Painflare, Energy Siphon. Each one has a clear, distinct purpose for separate jobs -- single-target burst, AoE opener, AoE burst, MP recovery -- and the design of them is such that you're really more fighting against time to spend 3 in under 45 seconds.

There isn't a single summoner worth their salt using Energy Drain out there.

Holding polyglot is irrelevant, because holding it without sufficient knowledge can be a waste - As it should be. Losing a polyglot because you didn't use Foul isn't worth setting up Neo-Freeze.

There's also the matter that Neo-Freeze is an -ice spell-. Neo-Freeze doesn't replace Foul unless you expend resources to ensure your UI window lasts until it's over. Without a stockpiled Polyglot and a TCloud, this means expending valuable instant cast tools that also serve as your mobility. Without fully filling out those GCDs, you're forced to idle (Lose uptime) to avoid going back into AF, which would cut Neo Freeze in half before the damage is dealt. I didn't choose the timers for them out of nowhere.

9 seconds minus 2.5 gcd is 6.5. Enough time for 2.8, 2.5, and an instant cast, but not enough for 2.8, 2.5, and Fire3 into UI.

And this is at base speed. Blackmages generally aim for a comfortable 8-10%, so this means further downtime to prevent your AF entrance from hitting Neo-Freeze's final potency.

Just because SE doesn't expect anything of its playerbase doesn't mean I have to do the same in a purely speculative, never going to happen thread.

[Archwizard]

There isn't a single summoner worth their salt using Energy Drain out there.

Sure, under ideal circumstances your MP recovery should be completely covered between Aetherflow and Lucid Dreaming, with Energy Drain only acting as an additional tool for emergencies, but you're both ignoring the relevant point and making it for me.

First, ignorance in that your strawman still only focuses on one out of four, and the remaining three are well enough to illustrate the point: each have distinctive, unambiguous purposes without overlap.

Second, the proof:

Holding polyglot is irrelevant, because holding it without sufficient knowledge can be a waste - As it should be. Losing a polyglot because you didn't use Foul isn't worth setting up Neo-Freeze.

Exactly.

As you keep on stating, Foul is intended to be the primary use of the proc, with the others being 'situationally' useful (for instance, in cases where you have no target and must idle, or where you cannot stop to cast Foul in the ideal window before you lose the Polyglot).

Yet when presented with abilities that already exist for the same "if you can't cast what you really wanted to" purposes -- Scathe, Energy Siphon, etc -- you shame their existence and usage, because in ideal circumstances, nobody should ever be using them, and being pushed to the point of using them feels like "admitting you lost."
Well, they're not for ideal purposes. They're specifically for when it's not ideal, to be more forgiving, exactly like your suggestion of Neo-Freeze.

Half the question therein is, do we need multiple skills for that purpose? Because having just one "I don't have time to cast Foul" skill is either plenty for most players' purposes or, as you keep on insinuating, not "worth their salt" to use -- and when it comes to Foul, this is personally a case where I agree with that attitude, because Foul's something you take great care to build up to.

The other half being, how much does this add to our playstyle? Because when we're talking about problem children like lack of mobility, lack of utility, lack of open GCDs to cast oGCDs, or lack of reason to maintain our DoT, we're not exactly begging to spend two of our five advancements on pretty ornaments that fight over a role we already have filled.