We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Physic]

In my humble opinion, so be it. There are alternative MMORPGs out there, and they all won't work for everyone either. Everyone can choose what works for them and story quests being central to this one game works for me.

story locks are a dumb hill to die on. All mmos are in a constant war of attrition, its not a good idea to make the game less and less appealing for new players.


Also When we first started, the game was cap 50, and msq wasnt as big of an impediment/segregation of players. Now, the game will have like 3 times the obstacles/segregation. The idea that the current state is the game as it was always meant to be is false. We are currently in an unintended side effect of years of linear expansions, Where old players and new players are 120+ hours apart based on story. There are less and less players reaching max story, and thus experiencing the content. Something is wrong, do nothing, and the game will suffer for it.

[Kalise]

There are less and less players reaching max story, and thus experiencing the content. Something is wrong, do nothing, and the game will suffer for it.

Since... According to Yoshida, the game's population has been increasing over SB.

I see no shortage of people at max level, doing max level content. Meaning that they must have reached max story.

Yet you claim, less and less players are reaching max story and that the game is suffering because of it?

So, it must be that you have proof of this?

[linay]

story locks are a dumb hill to die on. All mmos are in a constant war of attrition, its not a good idea to make the game less and less appealing for new players.


Also When we first started, the game was cap 50, and msq wasnt as big of an impediment/segregation of players. Now, the game will have like 3 times the obstacles/segregation. The idea that the current state is the game as it was always meant to be is false. We are currently in an unintended side effect of years of linear expansions, Where old players and new players are 120+ hours apart based on story. There are less and less players reaching max story, and thus experiencing the content. Something is wrong, do nothing, and the game will suffer for it.

When we first started, there was no boost option either, but now there is.

And it's not about having some hill to die on, but about a game feature that I like and, thus, want to keep. Could the MSQ be restructured so the quests are more to the point of the major plot points and can be done faster? Sure, it could, and I'd be OK with that. But making it not MSQ by turning it into optional side quests separated from the major points of the story where the character goes to dungeons/trials/raids is not OK for me.

[Physic]

Since... According to Yoshida, the game's population has been increasing over SB.

I see no shortage of people at max level, doing max level content. Meaning that they must have reached max story.

Yet you claim, less and less players are reaching max story and that the game is suffering because of it?

So, it must be that you have proof of this?

Only 2.5% of charachters have reached 4.1 story as of april. Even assuming the average player has 10 charachters, thats still only 25% of the population. and i doubt the average player has 10 charachters.


https://ffxivcensus.com/#top

[Kalise]

Only 2.5% of charachters have reached 4.1 story as of april. Even assuming the average player has 10 charachters, thats still only 25% of the population. and i doubt the average player has 10 charachters.


https://ffxivcensus.com/#top

Do you also have statistics of how many people reached end of story for previous expansions?

Do these statistics include the many thousands of Bot accounts that don't do the story at all? (Further suggested by looking at the class distribution where the base classes far, far outweigh the stand alone jobs in the "All Characters" graph, while the "Active Characters" graph has a much more expected even distribution)

How does those 9,858,714 deleted characters factor into this?

Have you seen the graph for Grand Company inclusion? With the "All Characters" one showing nearly 3/4 of the entire population do not belong to a Grand Company, which means not getting to around level 20 in the MSQ?

You might want to consider the validity of the data you provide if you're using it as "Proof"

[Physic]

When we first started, there was no boost option either, but now there is.

And it's not about having some hill to die on, but about a game feature that I like and, thus, want to keep. Could the MSQ be restructured so the quests are more to the point of the major plot points and can be done faster? Sure, it could, and I'd be OK with that. But making it not MSQ by turning it into optional side quests separated from the major points of the story where the character goes to dungeons/trials/raids is not OK for me.

i'm not saying remove story and context from dungeons/raids/alliances.

i'm saying have an option players must seek out, to remove msq lockouts for multi player content. Msq is a poor, non adaptive means of gating players from each other. Especially after like level 30-45 when the mechanics of the game world is basically the same from that point on.



Story wise it doesnt even make sense that everyone be in these dungeons for the same reason, So i dont see how other players motivations/knowledge is worth them quitting the game, so you can play with msq heads, tenacious story skippers, and people who buy potions.

I can see how many more players would opt out of msq if there was an option, but that tells you they really never cared about it. I can see people saying the context is less compelling without context, but we are talking about an option specifically for players repelled by the way that context is delivered.

I'm not going to suggest cutting up msq to make it more streamlined, because that messes it up for those who loved it; of whom there are apparently many.

[Liam_Harper]

To be honest, I couldn't care less if they let players skip the entire story, as long as the story-driven aspect of the game remains untouched. Except maybe ARR which could be redone with less blatant filler.

I really like story based games, so if that continues to be a thing I can enjoy, then other players can do as they like.

[Physic]

Do you also have statistics of how many people reached end of story for previous expansions?

Do these statistics include the many thousands of Bot accounts that don't do the story at all? (Further suggested by looking at the class distribution where the base classes far, far outweigh the stand alone jobs in the "All Characters" graph, while the "Active Characters" graph has a much more expected even distribution)

How does those 9,858,714 deleted characters factor into this?

Have you seen the graph for Grand Company inclusion? With the "All Characters" one showing nearly 3/4 of the entire population do not belong to a Grand Company, which means not getting to around level 20 in the MSQ?

You might want to consider the validity of the data you provide if you're using it as "Proof"

notice i said even assuming 10 fake charachters for every real charachter, you are still having a signifigant portion drop out.

but lets say we look at people who got a grand company, as the metric. so only 27% of that number got that far. out of that 27% only 600 made it to 4.1

that means out of 15 mil charachters, only 3.76 mil made a serious attempt at story, and out of the 3.76 mil, 600000 reached 4.1 thats even lower than my 25% random approximation. with only 16% making it to final msq. Of course not all of those are solely because of msq, but thats a pretty big % to lose.

[Physic]

To be honest, I couldn't care less if they let players skip the entire story, as long as the story-driven aspect of the game remains untouched. Except maybe ARR which could be redone with less blatant filler.

I really like story based games, so if that continues to be a thing I can enjoy, then other players can do as they like.

yea, this is how i feel, design it with a story in mind, guide and encourage people to use it, but for those of whom it doesnt fit, let them get around it.

[Melichoir]

story locks are a dumb hill to die on. All mmos are in a constant war of attrition, its not a good idea to make the game less and less appealing for new players.

Story locks may seem counter intuitive, but homogenizing all MMOs to be the same but with a different paint coat will hurt more than making them stand out for their uniqueness. MMOs that tried to copy WoW ended up failing. MMOs that set out to do their own thing were more successful. In this case, I feel the MSQ and world building is a selling point, not a detriment. Because despite it being supposedly so bad, the game has remained pretty solvent.

Also When we first started, the game was cap 50, and msq wasnt as big of an impediment/segregation of players. Now, the game will have like 3 times the obstacles/segregation. The idea that the current state is the game as it was always meant to be is false. We are currently in an unintended side effect of years of linear expansions, Where old players and new players are 120+ hours apart based on story. There are less and less players reaching max story, and thus experiencing the content.

Again, most of us fully understand that to much is going to be a problem. That's why we keep suggesting streamlining. If I understand your position, you want to ditch the MSQ necessity all together. That's not something I and a few others think is in the best interest of the game. It's a short term solution that's going to bring a whole lot of baggage with it.

Also, you again keep implicitly stating that the MSQ isnt content, and the only content that matters is end game. For a new player, all content from 2.0-current is new content. It's part of the game and a lot of it is enjoyable. There is plenty of time to get caught up and not left behind. There's a 3.5 month gap currently between major content patches. Playing even an extremely modest 1 hour a day average will get you almost caught up to our current state before a content patch drops. And I hazard the average player probably hits 3-4 hours average a day during hte week. This 120 hour number seems really daunting, but in reality, its not that much for an MMO.

From my experience, people tend to burn out when they try to force the issue. When they treat the game and it's content as an obstacle to be overcome rather than something to enjoy. Some of this issue is perspective.

Something is wrong, do nothing, and the game will suffer for it.

Two things: We are suggesting that that this set up is actually healthier for the game due to what it offers. It's not at a detriment to teh game as a concept. Also, we have been giving suggestions: Streamline the MSQ in older content by possibly pulling some content out of the MSQ but leaving it in game as part of a side content quest. Where people are resisting you and people with similar position is that we dont want content to be accessible by level only. This would turn the game into WoW by default, and lead to the exact same problems WoW has.

As a point, when I mentioned that MSQ gives people something to talk about, it also gives everyone a relate able experience. Veterans know exactly what new players are in for, and understand fully the advantages and pitfalls of it. They know the points of the story that are great moments. This helps bridge the gap between the veterans and new players effectively. In fact, a common complaint is how easy the 2.0 content has gotten and new players arent as skilled as a result. The 'dumbing down' of the game by syncing to HQ gear standards, thus making things easier (and more like WoW in that regards), has actually caused some friction between new players and old ones already.