Dark Knights Questline (Spoilers ahead)

[Kalise]

The thing is, while you, the player, may not feel guilty about taking those lives, it's implied that the WoL does.
Myste is just like Fray, he's a manifestation of the emotions that the WoL is trying to suppress or ignore.
We just see them as unlikable characters in a video game and their deaths are just the deaths of a character in a video game.
But to our WoL, those are real, living people that they've taken the lives of.

Except that Ilberd is hated by the WoL, because he was a backstabbing mass murderer.

Except that the WoL didn't kill Ystride, Sid did (At the behest of Rielle).

Except that the Imperial goons were literally trying to kill us in order to allow the Ultima Weapon to be used without resistance.

It's no different to how we killed Nidhogg. Twice. He was a real, living dragon. He was entirely justified in his anger because it was humans that betrayed the peace and murdered his sister to get her eyes.

It's no different to how we killed all those Ascians. They were real, sort of living? People. But they were evil to the core and trying to destroy all life.

That's why the WoL's response to all of this nonsense with Myste wasn't even close to being guilty. It was anger at the fact that Myste was trying to do this. That's why we ended up summoning up Fray and why Sid was also angry at Myste, because both of these people also know that Myste is talking absolute crap and know that you have to do bad things for good reasons.

Heck, even Rielle accepts this fact (Which is why she wants to train in Conjury with E-Sumi-Yan rather than to walk the path alongside Sid and us, she doesn't want to have to make that kind of choice)

[Bright-Flower]

Except that Ilberd is hated by the WoL, because he was a backstabbing mass murderer.

We also didn't kill him. We fought him, and he leaped away, and let himself fall backwards to die in the fall as part of summoning Shinryu. We didn't even actually kill him.

The SB DRK story COULD have worked, it's an interesting idea exploring the ramifications of all those that die in our wake, but as far as an attempted guilt trip go this is a pretty weak selection of characters to pull out regardless of whether it's targeting the player or the WOL.

[TheMightyMollusk]

The point of summoning the villains isn't guilt. It's to show that everyone, hero and villain alike, dies around us. As Myste says:

"Woe betide the man who stands against the Weapon of Light, for death is his reward. Death for him and his kin and all he holds dear.
Woe betide the man who stands with the Weapon of Light, for death is his reward. Death for him and his kin and all he holds dear."

This then ties into Fray's return. Fray is the side of the WoL's psyche that's sick of always being at everyone's beck and call and wants to be unbound, free to pursue their own goals and mete out their own justice. Myste is the side that feels all of the pain and loss and guilt over all of the bloodshed and war that follows the player wherever they go, among enemies, innocents, and allies alike. Basically, Fray doesn't really care about anyone else, while Myste cares about everyone else.

In the end (mostly voiced through Fray, since the player is a Heroic Mime), the WoL has to accept that both sides are part of them, hence the quest's name, "Our Compromise". As Fray says, "Do not seek forgiveness, for it will not ease the burden. It weighs as it should." Even though we stand for the Light, the fact remains that we fight and kill all the time. We can't avoid it, but somebody has to be the hero. We can either break under the weight, or keep moving forward. In the end, the only one who can truly forgive us is ourselves.

[RyuDragnier]

We also didn't kill him. We fought him, and he leaped away, and let himself fall backwards to die in the fall as part of summoning Shinryu. We didn't even actually kill him.

The SB DRK story COULD have worked, it's an interesting idea exploring the ramifications of all those that die in our wake, but as far as an attempted guilt trip go this is a pretty weak selection of characters to pull out regardless of whether it's targeting the player or the WOL.

IMO they should have summoned Moenbryda, Hauchefant, and Ysayle. THAT would have hurt us, badly.

[Sorimachi87]

Actually, Myste himself is supposed to represent the two people we feel guiltiest about dying. Haurchefant and Ysayle. He's an Elezen, just like the two of them, with Ysayle's long hair and Haurchefant's hair color.

Oh my god. Now that you said it. I rewatched the lvl 70 cutscenes just now. And i can imagine why our WoL looked shocked and rather angry at Ilberds face.
Nonetheless i think actually summoning them would have shaken us a lot more.

I really wonder how the drk story is gonna continue in shadowbringers....

[Bright-Flower]

IMO they should have summoned Moenbryda, Hauchefant, and Ysayle. THAT would have hurt us, badly.

Bringing out people we weren't able to save might have been more impactful for me. As it was, bringing out Gaius' lieutenants, the HW and Ilberd didn't get a reaction out of me other than laughing when Ilberd showed up.


EDIT:

I will say though, while I found the execution of the SB DRK story flawed, it was at least better than the PLD SB story. It was a decent Gladiator story but a poor PLD story.

[Melichoir]

Thing that Myste was trying to point out is that no matter what you do as teh WoL, there is blood on your hands. You kill all who oppose you pretty indiscriminately, and all those who ally with you die just the same. No matter what you do, you're surrounded by death. Myste represents that aspect that youre always at the center of people dying for some reason or another, and perhaps its your fault in some weird self defeating way as youre perpetuating the cycle by existing. Myste wanted to create a world where that wasnt the case, thinking that if you could bring back the dead, atleast for a moment so people can 'resolve' their suffering, you might break the cycle.

Or atleast thats how I read it. Myste was your Guilt over the blood always on your hands, unlike Fray who was just angry that everyone whos weaker than you seems to be using you as a tool when youre clearly more powerful. I do think Fray's quest line was better than Mystes, and I was disappointed that when Fray shows up again, he looks like the knight version and not our Shadowy DRK clone. (I thought it was the coolest beans during hte lvl 50 when Fray 'dies' and reveals a doppleganger version of yourself.)

[Kalise]

Thing that Myste was trying to point out is that no matter what you do as teh WoL, there is blood on your hands. You kill all who oppose you pretty indiscriminately, and all those who ally with you die just the same. No matter what you do, you're surrounded by death. Myste represents that aspect that youre always at the center of people dying for some reason or another, and perhaps its your fault in some weird self defeating way as youre perpetuating the cycle by existing.

Though, that line of thought is flawed too.

Since, we're surrounded by death... Because we're actually taking part in trying to save the world.

We could literally, retire and spend our days fishing in Limsa Lominsa and no-one would die because of us (Well... Except all the fish we catch). But we don't. We go take down the bad people who seek to bring about the deaths of countless innocents, killing them when its necessary (If we take the Black Mage quests at face value, Mr Catboi gets mad at us because instead of merely incapacitating people like we usually do, the people we took out died (Note: This was not our fault and it was actually the fact that these people were practicing Black Magic without Soul Crystals and so had literally burned their souls as a result)).

While also, being on the frontlines, with allies, some of whom die because we can't save everyone (With really, the biggest guilt trip being Hauchefant because, due to us not being fully aware of our surroundings, he ended up sacrificing himself to protect us) even though, we often do try and that's what the entire DRK questlines have been about before SB, using the Abyss to protect others.

Like, the initial quests for DRK from level 30-50, it's all about us not giving into the darkness and using the power we unlock for good, not to cause harm. It's the reason why we ended up having to fight Fray/our Darkside to assert our control over the power and not succumb to being evil - Which is why we get pardoned from the crime of heresy due to our whole "Talking to corpses" thing, because everyone there knows that we're inherently good and that despite the fact we've been dabbling in dark arts, they know that we'll be using these "Evil" powers for good.

With the 50-60 quests being all about Sid discovering that he walks the path to protect those he cares about (That being Rielle) instead of just revelling in combat. Heck, we even get asked the question of why we walk the path and have options that are basically "To protect my friends/family/innocents"

So... Why is Myste trying to point out that we're "Killing" people? When, literally all the quests prior have being about reinforcing the fact that we aren't bloodthirsty and literally want to just use our powers to protect others? With other people's deaths being of their own volition as they sacrificed themselves for the greater good (Moenbryda, Papalymo, Hauchefant, Ysayle. Technically, Gosetsu at that point as it wasn't until a later patch did we get the quests where he and Tsuyu returned), only one of those deaths was directly related to us - The others were for us AND our allies.

Also... Again... It would have made far more sense and had a far larger impact if Myste simply brought out Hauchefant. The person who died because we weren't observant enough. Who died to protect US, when as a DRK, we have always been about protecting OTHERS.

Rather than trying to put together this weak point about our "Killing of others" (By summoning 2 people whom, we didn't kill and would have died even if we weren't there Since, Sid would have hunted down Ystride alone to protect Rielle and it was all part of Ilberd's plan to kill himself to summon Shinryu) and then commenting about how "People who ally with us keep dying" without actually showing anything at all that would prove that (Which, I guess is due to the fact that literally, only Hauchefant died as a result of us...)

Like, Myste's point is that people have died, lots of people and they deserve a chance to live again. So his plan is to absorb the aether from beasts and create the simulacrum of everyone who has ever died so they can continue to "Live" so no-one need say farewell.

He also accuses us of being overcome by our Darkside with a taste for blood (When he says "...Shall I ask you the same? Who holds the reins?" to the question "Say your name, your real name")

To which Fray ends up stepping in BECAUSE we refused to succumb to our Darkside and outright kill Myste. As he mentions "...A compromise, I suppose? Our dear friend here refused to let me take the reins, but I wasn't about to stand idly by while that imbecile tries to do...whatever it was he was trying to do." (After Sid states "What in the seven hells is this!?" after he appears)

Meanwhile, the ironic thing about it, is that Rielle of all people is the one who makes sense when she responds to Myste's question "But what of the lost? Do they not deserve to live again?" by stating:

"They do. In our hearts and our souls and our memories. No one likes having to say good-bye. But it's...it's a part of life. That's what makes the time we share together so precious... You can't obsess over the mistakes of the past, or you'll lose sight of the future. Of the people still with us, who need us more than ever."

Emphasis on that last part, which is literally the only part of the SB questline that actually makes sense after the HW quests. Since it's talking about protecting those that we care about, the literal theme of DRK quests up until SB when it randomly became about this weird Aether-Vampire and his dream of a world full of ghosts because... People die and that's unfair?

[Melichoir]

snips

But this is kind of the point. Myste's view is incredibly flawed. We're not supposed to think "Yeah, myste is right about this." His view of the world is skewed, much like Fray's view is.

As for Myste, While we do what we do cause its for the greater good in protecting people, its still resulting in people dying. Blood is on our hands directly or indirectly, even in the pursuit of a better world. the villains we kill, They still have families, friends, lovers, etc. they suffer for our actions too. Myste was trying to be like "Well if people didnt die, then suffering wouldnt occur." It's totally misguided. Rielle has the right of it. In Myste's view, The fact that our actions keep leading people die and suffer is an issue. In his eyes, theres a miles long trail of dead bodies in our wake and the guilt of that comes with it.

Think of it this way, If were not a blood thirsty avenger, but fight to protect, then why is it that even in that regards, people still end up dead. If our goal is to protect and preserve, shouldnt we avoid combat? We say we're peace loving and looking to save and protect, but man, weve killed hundreds of people in the course of the campaign. Who wanted to use violence and power to rule? Fray. We're still doing that, so Myste is asking if were really in charge. But as I said, Myste's view is incredibly flawed, and frankly the story doesnt illustrate his point clearly.

[Big-Isaac]

The problem remains that if a character's view point is entirely, literally 100% false, then that view point is meaningless to the story.
Myste goes through this entire song and dance to accuse us of being evil, and the conclusion is a glorified version of the WoL going "nope" and walking off.
It would have made for a much better story had Myste been at least partially correct. We only fight to protect, but we do enjoy the fighting. We only kill when necessary, but watching some irredeemable bastard fall at our feet is still satisfying. But because the WoL is portrayed as a paragon of sweetness and sunshine, the whole point falls flat.