Why having a dedicated MT and dedicated OT is a TERRIBLE idea

[Bright-Flower]

But that's not actually going to be the case.

There will be plenty of situations where two OT or two MT get put in an instance. One of the OT can still do the MT job fine, just like one of the MT can still do the OT job fine. The concept they are going with where there are 2 tanks "suited" for OT and 2 for MT does not exclude them from being able to do the other role. Right now we have instances all the time of two PLDs in the same party, and one can still easily MT no problem.

Yeah. I'm mostly curious in how SE plans to make this distinction in the toolkits of individual tank jobs, as all four tanks will need to be CAPABLE of both roles for duty finder content, yet enough of a difference for them to be considered meaningful subroles in high end content. I wonder what they'll do. Maybe give MTs more defenses and OTs more utility? Hard to say. Hope we get the info dump on job actions this month to give us an idea.

[Kabooa]

Yeah. I'm mostly curious in how SE plans to make this distinction in the toolkits of individual tank jobs, as all four tanks will need to be CAPABLE of both roles for duty finder content.

Tank Stance
AoE threat move
Single target threat move

Done.

[Veis_Alveare]

I think people are putting too much stock in how much they're going to change things and getting worried over nothing.

SE is big on every possible comp being able to clear basically everything with almost no restriction. This is one of the fundamental issues with healers for years now - WHM supposedly has the 'advantage' of big HPS but since all 3 healers can put out enough healing to clear everything that doesn't matter.

This logic must also apply to tanks. Right now the distinction between MT and OT is literally decided by who will lost the least dps pulling the boss. WAR has the best snap aggro and loses basically nothing so WAR is the puller, PLD loses a lot so they're the last resort. In any decent group even when tank swaps aren't forced the tanks will still alternate the actual tanking as to efficiently use both tanks CDs. PLD might be the designated OT but it has no issue picking up a boss in the event of a death or mitigating things so why would a new OT distinction change any of that? They're as OT as can be.

I'm sure that the dps outputs of all the tanks will be similar, anything else would just mean the MTs literally wouldn't see use. MT and OT aren't about who is putting out more dps anyways, look at most fights - the WAR does more damage and likely tanks the boss for longer.

I'd wager that the OT kits will lend themselves to supporting another tank and/or the group better. Cover/Intervention/TBN/Reprisal style abilities.

I don't think this is going to break tanks, if anything it might make tanking a bit more dynamic and less selfish when you're a non-PLD.

[Sylvain]

Perhaps the most simple solution would be to make skill change from "MT tool" to "OT tool" depending on wether or not you're in tank stance.
And to prevent issue with the whole "dps loss from tank stance", they could simply remove the damage penalty on the tank stance.

For instance,

PLD
Sheltron
ShO : Regular
SwO : Intervention

Cover :
ShO : Clemency-like ogcd (or
SwO : Regular

Rage of Halone (Now combo from Riot Blade, dmg scaled up to Royal Authority or slightly under (like 10-20 potency)
ShO : Also grant some form of defensive bonus
SwO: Become Royal Authority

Shield Swipe :
ShO : Duration increased, new utility added such to make it more dynamic
SwO: Becomes Clemency 30s cd , if target healed is below 50% health, increase the potency of your next Holy Spirit by 100% (basically, you're not loosing dps by using it). HP threshold to prevent abuse and becoming "part of the rotation"

Spirit Within :
ShO : Heal for the damage done, 100% of the healing received is added as damage.
SwO : Charge the target

Circle of Scorn : (new effect on top of current one)
ShO : Increase healing received by 20% while standing in the holy ground
SwO : Heal party members for low potency over 15s.


I'm not saying those are all great ideas, but you get the point.
They could all be both OT and MT (properly i mean) just by changing how some skills behave.

[Bright-Flower]

Tank Stance
AoE threat move
Single target threat move

Done.

How is this a change?

[Kabooa]

How is this a change?

You said capable of clearing duty finder content.

That's literally all they need.

[Veis_Alveare]

You said capable of clearing duty finder content.

That's literally all they need.

Or just a good healer.

[Kabooa]

Or just a good healer.

Well unless Gunbreaker has a trait called "A Good Healer" I think it's safe to assume that won't always be available.