Celests opinion bout the state of tanks

[Wiccan026]

OP I can empathize with you that healing undergeared tanks, when their undergeared and in their DPS stance, is annoying and it makes me really hate healing (not to mention I have to sit their and pray that everyone else in the group is competent.. hmmm can whm get a "pray" ability that is moderately useful in shadowbringers.. that would make me happy).

Yet, I don't want them to eliminate the direction they've gone in due to the fact that some people are bad at their roles (I mean that would be a very bad thing, considering you can always find people bad at them)... especially when you see someone... in this case a tank... do everything right (tank in DPS stance, use cooldowns and not need me spamming heals) well it just makes me happy... I would expect a similar reaction from a bunch of people.

[Aurelius2625]

Just because there are idiots that play tank AND healer, doesn't mean that a job is broken. Just means that someone missing a chromosome is playing it currently. In ALL leveling dungeons, I can do no tank stance, just dps stance except for the initial pull of mobs and be just fine. When I run out of cooldowns, if the pack is still healthy, I'll pop tank stance on for the trash pull. There is virtually zero bosses that require tank stance. None. Nada. Zilch.

[Veis_Alveare]

Just because there are idiots that play tank AND healer, doesn't mean that a job is broken. Just means that someone missing a chromosome is playing it currently. In ALL leveling dungeons, I can do no tank stance, just dps stance except for the initial pull of mobs and be just fine. When I run out of cooldowns, if the pack is still healthy, I'll pop tank stance on for the trash pull. There is virtually zero bosses that require tank stance. None. Nada. Zilch.

While I'm far from agreeing with the OP the idea that you pull large packs of enemies and routinely drop tank stance (which is how this reads) is more a credit to your healers than anything.

[ReiMakoto]

While I'm far from agreeing with the OP the idea that you pull large packs of enemies and routinely drop tank stance (which is how this reads) is more a credit to your healers than anything.

Honestly depends, if you're on DRK at lvl 70 you should be perfectly fine, cos the extra drain from abyssal will carry you through so the net damage taken won't be that much. Rotating CDs and inner release bursting on WAR is monstrous and will probably cause the trash to die way way sooner again taking less damage in the long run. The net that tank stance gives you really isnt that much if you effectively use the abilities the game gives you, and your healer won't feel much difference.

[Jollyy5]

I'm guessing one reason why people compare tanking in FFXIV to WoW is because in WoW, -tanking- itself is active, as in many of your offensive skills that you use often either give you a boost in survivability directly, or builds up a resource you can use for more defense/self healing. As a result tanking feels meaningful even without high DPS numbers because you are actively keeping your defense up and making things easier for your healer.

Meanwhile in FFXIV your DPS skills and defensive skills are completely split, and if we want a little bit extra survivability, we have to sacrifice DPS and flow of gameplay/rotations which just feels awful, and it's a big part of why players who care about optimal play strive to stay in DPS stance.

[Aurelius2625]

Actually, tank defensives don't actually take away from our DPS, only tank stance does that.

DRK gains more mana with blood weapon in Darkside only, which means more access to TBN, PLD gains FAR more oath gauge to do sheltron, which is on demand Vengeance-level mitigation for a single hit.

WAR has access to all of its defensives, and can even weave it's ogcd tank stance paired with unchained to access inner beast with little cost to dps at all.

Only tank stances directly impact dps.

[Veis_Alveare]

Actually, tank defensives don't actually take away from our DPS, only tank stance does that.

DRK gains more mana with blood weapon in Darkside only, which means more access to TBN, PLD gains FAR more oath gauge to do sheltron, which is on demand Vengeance-level mitigation for a single hit.

WAR has access to all of its defensives, and can even weave it's ogcd tank stance paired with unchained to access inner beast with little cost to dps at all.

Only tank stances directly impact dps.

If you're one of the few tanks that can actually properly mitigate and hold threat on a large pull outside of tank stance good for you. You're still burdening your healer more but if they're keeping up (and with most of the current dungeons how could they not) then I guess it is what it is. Healers are still far superior in AoE damage to anything a tank can put out aside from Inner Release.

Also Sheltron in a huge pull is basically worthless - it's bit mitigation more often than not on one of many tiny hits. Using it is still better than not using it but the consistent 20% mitigation of Shield Oath is still better... even more so when you consider PLD's pitiful AoE dps.

[Phoenicia]

If you're one of the few tanks that can actually properly mitigate and hold threat on a large pull outside of tank stance good for you. You're still burdening your healer more but if they're keeping up (and with most of the current dungeons how could they not) then I guess it is what it is. Healers are still far superior in AoE damage to anything a tank can put out aside from Inner Release.

So I picked a random dungeon on FFLogs to check the numbers and here's what came out:


Sure, "Healers are still far superior in AoE damage to anything a tank can put out"-- oh wait.... Is that a WAR I see above, Ninja, Bard, Dragoon and all 3 healers? Last I checked WAR is a "tank". And I'm sure IR alone wouldn't put the job above so many jobs. Also the WHM is barely beating DRK. DRK is still above 2 healers. But if you consider PLD to be the only tank, then sure, your statement is absolutely true. Oh wait, that's because PLD is garbage in it.

Please let the "Healers do more AoE DPS" meme die already.

[Kabooa]

Literally says aside from Inner Release in that quote.

And if you don't think IR is that ridiculous in AoE, that's on you. You can't deal damage to something that's already dead, and things don't get much deader than the Inner Release window on stuff that doesn't have boss level HP.

[Jollyy5]

At least when playing as a SCH, if a tank knows what they are doing while tanking a group of mobs in DPS stance, I still don't really need to touch them with any GCD heals, if even oGCDs other than the initial pre-pull Excog, as the Fairy can keep them alive for the most part even without Aetherpact.

PLD is in a bit of an unfortunate position where they only have Total Eclipse and Circle of Scorn for AoE, so it's barely even worth it to switch to Sword Oath for mob pulls, especially if it ends up in the PLD having to Clemency themselves.