Quote Originally Posted by Wynn_Storm View Post
Speak for yourself, don't try and vouch for other players.
You know what I find amusing with this? I always see people who try and push for more hardcore content / story-squishing to get to endgame faster / more raids / etc always try and push/imply that the way they play is the way everyone plays.

IE. Look at the post I quoted in my initial post, the OP, many of the replies throughout this thread from ppl wanting the MSQ slashed and/or allow characters to start at the new expansion... they very much try and act like they speak for more players than themselves, and imply they are the majority.

Yet the numbers speak for themselves - those who participate in endgame dungeons, raids, hardcore content, etc and/or want to skip main-story for this content are the minority of the players. The majority never touch it.

Quote Originally Posted by Vahlnir View Post
Yeah. Honestly, enough people apparently participate in higher end content...otherwise they wouldn't bother using time and money to make them. If there's enough incentive though even the most casual of players may dabble in challenging content now and then. I'm pretty casual myself but I will hop into a current Extreme trial if I feel the rewards are worth it. Haven't been much of a raider though since 2012 near the end of WoW's Cataclysm expansion. But I do enter normal and 24 man raids in FF XIV regularly. I understand that by most standards that isn't really raiding but it's called a raid so...yeah. LFR in WoW, 24 man and normal "story mode" raids in FF XIV are pretty much my jam.
There was huge incentivesd in WoW to play the raids - better gear, more money, and the conclusion of the games story. Yet under 6% of players ever stepped foot in them till LFR was introduced into the game. It doesn't matter how much 'incentive' you stick in something, if it's something that players do not like or want to do, then they will not do it.

IE: Of the 94% of WoW players who never raided in vanilla, BC or LK raids... I'll promise you there were a lot who were extremely keen for WoW's story and lore. Yet they never did the raids themselves. Instead they watched ppl do the raids on Youtube and/or read the lore on a lore site/wiki.

Or the achievement hunters who never stepped into any raids till they were 2-3+ expansions later. There are a lot of people who chase achievement points, but never did the 'endgame' content when it was relevant. Why? Because they did not like or want to raid, so they waited till they could over-power the raids due to higher level & gear... and then did it.

Look at ESO, they are tying the 5th birthday celebration tickets into their PvP zone... yet there are plenty of people who are avoiding the PvP. Even though they are chasing the tickets and the rewards they get with the tickets... because they dislike PvP so much they are avoiding it and missing out on rewards that they want.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying there's no desire for endgame content, harder content, etc. Obviously there is. And I'm glad that Dev's put time and effort into making content for those who like this content. But I am sick and tired of ppl who like this content trying to act like they are the majority - they aren't.

As for FFXIV's 24-man content... lolz. Unless your talking about SB's 24-man content, the rest is a jok. And even with SB's... as long as 60-70% of the ppl in the raid are somewhat decent and know the mechanics you should be able to complete it (yes, I've been through them times with 3-5 wipes but finished anyways). WoW's LFR are brainless raids as well... well, they were when I did them... although I did do serious raiding back in BC (and by serious I mean I was in the 'B' team of a guild that was chasing world 1st's for it's server).

Quote Originally Posted by Physic View Post
gw 2 got rid of dungeons, to add raids, but also in gw2 you can do everything with friends, including storymissions, in swtor, you can also do everything with friends. Also in gw2 you can complete story whenever you want, skipping around if you want. Having a primarily solo story is fine, but not having access to virtually anything without story, most of which is group content is problematic, and it gets worse the more story there is.
GW2's raids are also not the most popular content added to the game. In fact, they pulled a really shonky thing to try and force players into doing the raids (unless it's been changed, which is possible as it's been awhile since I've been there) - to try and force players into the raid... they put a needed Mastery in there. So anyone who wanted to finish out their Masteries would HAVE to do the raid regardless of whether they wanted to or not. Don't do the raid? Forever be stuck not being able to finish the Mastery's and unlock everything it did.

Oh, and you can't do everything in GW2 or SW:TOR with friends. Most of the story instances (GW2's vanilla personal story & all of SW:TOR's class stories) are SOLO only, not able to be done with friends at all. GW2 I believe has fixed this with the Living Story being able to be done with groups instead of solo. SW:TOR's last 2 main expansions still has the main story insstances/quest's being solo-only.

As for the last point.. I will agree that for those who don't want to play a story-based MMO for it's story and just want to jump into grinding dungeons, trials & alliance raids... being forced to play through the MSQ to unlock these is troublematic. And even with the story & class skip potions, they'd still have to play the MSQ for the 'current' expansion to unlock it's dungeons, trials and raids.

Maybe they could add another skip potion that unlocked dungeons, trials, raids for players so they could do them whenever... as long as they met the level & gear reuirements. Sure they'd still have to level up somewhat to even start the dungeon running... but hey, that would take 1? day of MSQ even without the road-to-60 buff. Or buy a class-skip potion.

And yes, my suggestion is another 'pay for it' option. Because whether you use a potion or play the MSQ, you'll be paying for it - either with time or money. So if your time is more valuable, cough up the money... else play through the MSQ.