Instant-gratification, and the "Time Sink Here, Time Sink There" song. VERY LONG

[Alise]

i dont think once was it mentioned that the totem was supposed to be 100% drop, ever.

Anyway, this is basically becoming another thread of ppl want to work towards a goal vs ppl who think they deserve something every time they accomplish something (kinda like when a dog sits you give it a treat).

I don't care if it is 10 totem for 1 weapon/ 20 totem for 1 weapon/ or make it 40 totem for 1 weapon. make it a fair game!

Each win should counts. Not some lucky bastard get it first run, while another person doing 100 runs with better skills and more success and not get anything. Step by step, go equally. As my old quote for example of football. You shoot a goal, and what if referee says he must random generate number to count your goal ? Of course, many people would quit playing football. Same to this game, many people complain and quit. Because of this stupid drop rate. Yet, I still not see dev realize this yet.

[OMEGA_HACK]

I like to call it: Delusional Achievement - (phrase) meaning: obtaining something that leads one to believe they are successful in a certain set of objectives wherein they must obtain numerous of these somethings in order to really achieve the end goal. ie - Requiring a player to obtain 10 Ifrit Totems for just one Ifrit weapon is a Delusional Achievement.

One of the items mean absolutely nothing but a token of achievement, but 10 tokens mean you have actually obtained the achievement. So to make the claim that a Totem is indeed a "reward" is silly, it's merely 1/10th of a reward as it has no real value by itself. Does this make sense? That being said it would require a team of 8 static (the same 8 people) at least 80 times to fight Ifrit for everyone to get just ONE weapon (if you have more classes @50 then be prepared to do it even more times)

Since most people claim to have already fought him 80+ times without getting their class's weapon I see this as a fair trade off, it wouldn't give anyone a direct advantage over anyone, it rules out that pesky "luck" factor (which some perceive as "toughness", which would be incorrect), it keeps the true "toughness" factor (the skill required to fight and kill the target boss), and finally it makes it where Delusional Achievement will "guide" players to an end goal. Consider these weapons like mini-relic weapons so to speak (ref: FFXI), there was a concise goal and you could easily mark your progress.

However, under the current system we have no real way of marking progress, which in turn leads to feeling like no progress is being made at all. This is not good.

[CepheiMordred]

Seriously, it might be time for SE to deactivate and shut down these forums and just use surveys to gain direction. There is a clear polarity of "too hard" and "too easy" with about 30 people from each side posing inflammatory comments constantly and stupid memes.

I am not as anti-difficulty as my posts might lead one to believe.

I'm anti-"things should be difficult and you should like it to be difficult or else you're a spoiled little casual crybaby, unfit to be among real men like us" that seems to be one of the prevailing attitudes here.

[Tahldon]

Wow.. I might've overlooked the point of all this somewhere in there but... are people seriously arguing about not getting a rare weapon after a boss fight?

In the long line of video games that I've played, rare weapons mean just what it says. But there is a reward: the chance of being able to get a weapon or even a totem, which eventually adds up to one. It's the same with gambling, just because you're playing the slots and winning every now and then, doesn't guarantee you'll hit the jackpot. If you win, you get something for your troubles (a few dollars back or so, or, in our case "Dark matter" lol). It may not mean the same amount of value to you, but you do get a reward. Just because it's not what you wanted it to be doesn't take away the fact that you got something after successfully beating the boss.

Same with the rare weapons, it's a dice roll. Hope you get lucky, come back and play again if you don't.

Too easy.

Or can someone here honestly say "I didn't get anything for my wins, not even Dark matter"? Cause then there'd be a problem.

[Rizon]

Guess I'll add my 2 cents. I have played FFXI for over 6 years. In that time I have never fought a Ground HNM. Why?.....because they were the exclusive property of HNMLSs with their claiming bots. I believe SE was trying to avoid that problem by making end game fights instanced and in order to keep it from becoming the "fight it every 30 minutes" example mentioned. They require to refarm your pop items ala Kirin. That can be construed as a time sink if you want. The major point of contention appears to be the notouriously low drop rates that SE is <in>famous for. Though I do agree with the OP that many people want instant gratifacation on the first fight and every fight there after the opposong side does have a valid point. They should be able to see reasonable results for their efforts over the long haul. The drop rates do need to be adjusted upwards. Personnaly I feel that 10% fopr weapons or 50% for totems would be reasonable. IMO that is the issues that should really be discussed here....what is reasonable. IMO using the Defender Ring was a poor example. Like the Black Belt it continuesa to maintain its awsomeness. Evben Yoshida has said that the drops from the Ifrit and Moogle fights can be bettered by adding Materia to crafted items plus I suspect that there will be even more powerful gear made available as the game progresses. SO adjusting the drop rates for these is reasonable. Agree oir disagree as you wil, these are my opinions on the subject.

[Pandastirfry]

To the op...

In soccer...every time you score a goal you get a point... not a chance at a point.

In chess...if you get checkmate on your opponent you win... not a chance at a win. (and in tournament play, points as well)

What people are asking for in the 100% drop of totem request...if you would actually listen to them instead of dismiss it as "QQ", is that they are simply asking for the game to at least register the "win", the goal, or the checkmate...just like all your very poorly thought out analogies do. Is it really that hard to understand?

[Jashynvald]

Guess I'll add my 2 cents. I have played FFXI for over 6 years. In that time I have never fought a Ground HNM. Why?.....because they were the exclusive property of HNMLSs with their claiming bots. I believe SE was trying to avoid that problem by making end game fights instanced and in order to keep it from becoming the "fight it every 30 minutes" example mentioned. They require to refarm your pop items ala Kirin. That can be construed as a time sink if you want. The major point of contention appears to be the notouriously low drop rates that SE is <in>famous for. Though I do agree with the OP that many people want instant gratifacation on the first fight and every fight there after the opposong side does have a valid point. They should be able to see reasonable results for their efforts over the long haul. The drop rates do need to be adjusted upwards. Personnaly I feel that 10% fopr weapons or 50% for totems would be reasonable. IMO that is the issues that should really be discussed here....what is reasonable. IMO using the Defender Ring was a poor example. Like the Black Belt it continuesa to maintain its awsomeness. Evben Yoshida has said that the drops from the Ifrit and Moogle fights can be bettered by adding Materia to crafted items plus I suspect that there will be even more powerful gear made available as the game progresses. SO adjusting the drop rates for these is reasonable. Agree oir disagree as you wil, these are my opinions on the subject.

Hrm..

Why not, instead of a yes/no totem drop just have a random amount of..I dunno..."Totem Fragments" in said chest each and every fight that you'd need to get a full stack of 99 to trade in for a weapon. I mean, the parameters for the rate of fragments dropped could be adjusted to make it average out to what we have now or the above example of a 50% rate for a full-on totem in so much as how many times we have to snuff out Ifrit. I think something like this would go a long way towards easing the discontent with the loot system as you'll at least able to see, even if you didn't get a weapon, the results of your efforts building up over time rather than needing frenzied prayer to the Random Number God.

You can't take the grind out of the MMO but there are more elegant options towards encouraging people to continue.

[Yves]

To the op...

In soccer...every time you score a goal you get a point... not a chance at a point.

In chess...if you get checkmate on your opponent you win... not a chance at a win. (and in tournament play, points as well)

What people are asking for in the 100% drop of totem request...if you would actually listen to them instead of dismiss it as "QQ", is that they are simply asking for the game to at least register the "win", the goal, or the checkmate...just like all your very poorly thought out analogies do. Is it really that hard to understand?

In all aspects, winning is rarely easy - just ask the Eagles. So with how easy these fights are it can be akin to playing dodgeball with a deaf, dumb, and blind kid. Should you get a cookie everytime you nail them? Or beating Stephen Hawking at armwrestling - does that merit an original movie starring Terry Crews and John Stamos to celebrate your victory? Not really, amigo.

So if you want a 100% droprate be willing to accept a significantly harder fight. But then the threads will be that it's too hard.

[Pandastirfry]

In all aspects, winning is rarely easy - just ask the Eagles. So with how easy these fights are it can be akin to playing dodgeball with a deaf, dumb, fat, and blind kid. Should you get a cookie everytime you nail them? Or beating Stephen Hawking at armwrestling - does that merit an original movie starring Terry Crews and John Stamos to celebrate your victory? Not really, amigo.

So if you want a 100% droprate be willing to accept a significantly harder fight. But then the threads will be that it's too hard.

Again...You beat the deaf dumb kid, you beat Stephen Hawking, it all still goes in the win column, you still get the points.

Look, Again, this shouldn't be hard to understand...When you score a goal, you get a point. When you kill ifrit, you get a totem, it just makes sense...

To use an analogy that actually works, not a horrible, tortured one like your side has been using.

If you do your job, whatever it may be, Does your employer/manager come along and say..."Well I think your job is easy, I did it years ago...blah blah blah, So, we're going to roll this die, if It comes up a six, you get paid this week, if it comes up anything else...well, try again next week..."
NO! of course not, he would get sued. he gives you your paycheck and you all leave happy, maybe one day if you do your job real well you might get an even rarer reward like a promotion or a raise...but you at least get the reward of a paycheck every time.

[AtryxEtair]

Where does OP say anything about totem drop rate?