Disappointed in the turn the Garlean Empire has taken

[Rocl]

Many in Garlemald also believed in the motto "Freedom through technology", and the ways of the empire as we knew them in ARR.

Everything else aside, I think it's been mentioned before, but that motto is Garlond Ironworks. Cid is a Garlean expatriate, yes, but I really don't think we have any evidence that it's anything but the Ironwork's motto. I subscribe to the idea in the Omega storyline, Nero just reminds Cid of his own words rather than any Garlean creed (before that comes up again).

Lore Book 1 gives the official Garlean motto as "Nos sumus manus, Nos sumus deus." [We are the Hand, We are the God.]

I don't think we've met enough born and bred Garleans for a long enough period of time to get an accurate gauge of the populace's opinion. We have very few PoV from trueblood Garleans--we get a lot of provincial views, but as it is we really only have: Cid, Nero, Lucia, the Prima Vista, Maxima, the three/four Legatus, and Varis. We interact with very fringe cases of Garleans: high-ranking military officials (including the bloody Emperor himself), and expatriates fleeing the country exactly because they disagree with it. Given that, it's easy to see that we see two opposing extreme views of the Empire--neither of which I'd say is likely to be a majority opinion among the general public (and actually, given the Empire's efficacy of propaganda, I'd expect the former Republic itself to skew toward the Imperialist ideals.)

[Gemina]

Everything else aside, I think it's been mentioned before, but that motto is Garlond Ironworks. Cid is a Garlean expatriate, yes, but I really don't think we have any evidence that it's anything but the Ironwork's motto. I subscribe to the idea in the Omega storyline, Nero just reminds Cid of his own words rather than any Garlean creed (before that comes up again).

Lore Book 1 gives the official Garlean motto as "Nos sumus manus, Nos sumus deus." [We are the Hand, We are the God.]

I don't think we've met enough born and bred Garleans for a long enough period of time to get an accurate gauge of the populace's opinion. We have very few PoV from trueblood Garleans--we get a lot of provincial views, but as it is we really only have: Cid, Nero, Lucia, the Prima Vista, Maxima, the three/four Legatus, and Varis. We interact with very fringe cases of Garleans: high-ranking military officials (including the bloody Emperor himself), and expatriates fleeing the country exactly because they disagree with it. Given that, it's easy to see that we see two opposing extreme views of the Empire--neither of which I'd say is likely to be a majority opinion among the general public (and actually, given the Empire's efficacy of propaganda, I'd expect the former Republic itself to skew toward the Imperialist ideals.)

Sounds like I need to get me one of them lore books to sharpen my knowledge xD

Thanks for the corrections^^

[Nalien]

In short, even if the Empire's methods were able to prevent any and all summons after their conquest (and they're not), as long as summons are carried out during invasions that's not an ideal outcome. The ideal outcome is zero, and the Empire's methods aren't conducive to that at all.

If they did absolutely nothing, would the number be zero though? I'm fairly certain summons would happen regardless. In the long run, what's better;

1 summon a week with no conquest.
2 summons a week during conquest, but with 0 summons after conquest.

In the long run you potentially have less summonings. Not saying their methodology isn't incredibly flawed, but at least they're actively trying to find a solution, and even acknowledging flawed ones (as seen in the Warring Triad story). What does the Eorzea Alliance do to stop Ifrit being summoned? Nothing, they just throw prisoners of war at him at this point... We've battled Ifrit what, three times? Crispin claims to have battled him four times, so we can assume he has at least been summoned seven times without Garlean involvement, and the one time he was summoned in response to Gaius, Gaius instantly had a pretty good solution I feel... Ultima Weapon only backfired because we decided to go against it, as I recall the tribes were terrified of it robbing them of their gods and our destroying it directly resulted in them getting right back to summoning the (Hard) variants...

Honestly, our resistance to Garlemald seems more like a contributing factor in summonings than their actual conquest. Obviously that's rightful resistance, and it only happens as a result of their conquest, but they do seem to get results in the end... I don't think there was any indication of Lakshmi being a problem during the Garlean occupation. We liberate the region and now she is a persistent problem. Kinda feels like we took one step forwards on basic human rights, and two steps back on solving the Primal problem to me. For all their flaws, they seem to be doing some long term good on that front... The Eorzean Alliance, on the other hand... Well, if Ifrit is still a persistent problem, why would Lakshmi now be any different? The Ananta went from not being able to summon under tight Garlean rule, to being able to summon in the thrown room of Ala Mhigo... Successfully pushing back their conquest didn't lower the number of summonings, it increased it...

[Kalise]

We liberate the region and now she is a persistent problem. Kinda feels like we took one step forwards on basic human rights, and two steps back on solving the Primal problem to me. For all their flaws, they seem to be doing some long term good on that front... The Eorzean Alliance, on the other hand... Well, if Ifrit is still a persistent problem, why would Lakshmi now be any different? The Ananta went from not being able to summon under tight Garlean rule, to being able to summon in the thrown room of Ala Mhigo... Successfully pushing back their conquest didn't lower the number of summonings, it increased it...

Well, on the flip side... Due to our pushing back of the Imperials as well as our defeating of Lakshmi (Twice) there are more Qalyana's coming to join the Gatekeepers and work with the Vira (Whom don't want to summon Primals).

Which seems to be somewhat of the goal to stopping Primals, at least in some cases. Trying to get the Beast Tribes we help into a position to slowly "convert" the aggressive tribe into their fold, or at least to make them see reason.

For example, Novv tries to impart on them a sense of compassion, that sending your clutch to their death in a pointless war because of summoning a Primal is not a good way of life.

The Vanu are trying to just live in peace alongside the Gundu, and thus just need to be threatening enough that the Vundu don't feel justified in trying to become the sole tribe among the Sea of Clouds. Thus without a reason to assert dominance, the Vundu have little reason to summon Bismarck.

The Vath are trying to simply survive against the Gnath and look after any members of the Gnath whom inexplicably lose their connection to the Onemind.

Really... The main problem with The Eorzean Alliance way of trying to deal with Primals... Is the fact that they kind of just let the Scions go and deal with things, because that's what one of the main aims of the organization was. Just... When we discovered that Ascians were behind the increasing frequency of summons, well... Now the entire focus of the organization is on defeating the Ascians. The result is that... Well nothing is being done about the Beast Tribes and their summoning practices, other than beating up the Primals when they spawn and occasionally stealing their crystals to prevent them from summoning anything (You know, when we're not incidentally causing summons in the first place (Whilst also traumatizing a Kobold child in the process...))

Which is another way that the annoying Ascian focus of the plot has messed with the game's story... It basically means that the entire Eorzean Alliance and the Scions look horribly inept at actually solving the issue with Primals...

[ObsidianFire]

The big issue with Primals is that fighting against a Primal is really fighting against an idea. Just... that idea can literally become a weapon that drains the energy out of the world and can also brainwash people into believing it all the time.

Only... fighting against ideas in incredibly hard. Force never really works. And Force is what the Garleans use primarily. The Eorzean Alliance for all its faults is at least trying to fight an idea with a different idea, and that has the potential to work much better over the long run. Heck, we see it working right now. It's just that until the people who are brainwashed into thinking the idea behind the Primal die the idea of the Primal is never totally going to go away. Maybe not even then. So the Eorzean Alliance only really engages with the Beast Tribes when a Primal is summoned.

Which is a way better moral position to be in then the Garleans are. The Garleans are trying to kill an idea by killing everyone who could have that idea. They don't really care if people have that idea actually. We see Varis and Regula trying to kill the Vanu Vanu who we already know do not want to summon Bismark because they worship a different Bismark (who they would not summon) and therefor have the potential to summon it. Then we end up finding out that non-beast tribes can summon primals just fine too and now where do the Garleans decide to stop with the "killing people who could summon primals" campain? Ysayle can summon up Saint Shiva just fine and Eorzea has plenty of Saint to summon (if not outright gods). We've seen two kami summoned and Doma and Hingashi worship thousands of kami. Then there's the dragons who prove that you can summon up a primal based on the idea of a person and making it so OP it can cause a Calamity. So like... anything really can be summoned as a primal. You just need an aether source and belief in that idea.

Why yes... I am very much suspecting the Garleans will summon a primal based on their ideas and have to deal with the fact that they are just like all the people they were killing just because they had ideas they could summon as primals. The irony will be amazing.

[Daralii]

Why yes... I am very much suspecting the Garleans will summon a primal based on their ideas and have to deal with the fact that they are just like all the people they were killing just because they had ideas they could summon as primals. The irony will be amazing.

They foreshadowed that pretty hard on the Prima Vista when we were told that the Emperor is effectively deified. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a deliberate move on the part of Solus.

[Dualblade]

One important thing to remember is that, prior to the Battle at Silvertear, Primal summoning rarely happened if at all on Eorzea during the Sixth Astral Era. While the Eorzeans didn't make the best responses to the beast tribes use of summoning it was ultimately the Garleans who started the problem. This is true regardless of whether Solus being an Ascian was planned from the start be either the current or for more dev team.

[Floortank]

One important thing to remember is that, prior to the Battle at Silvertear, Primal summoning rarely happened if at all on Eorzea during the Sixth Astral Era. While the Eorzeans didn't make the best responses to the beast tribes use of summoning it was ultimately the Garleans who started the problem. This is true regardless of whether Solus being an Ascian was planned from the start be either the current or for more dev team.

Seems to me like the devs always intended Ascians to be the root of summoning and that the idea to use Garlemald as a means of spreading suffering and thus the spread of religion has always been close in mind. Remember van Baelsar's big speech about religion in the Praetorium?

[Cilia]

If they did absolutely nothing, would the number be zero though? I'm fairly certain summons would happen regardless. In the long run, what's better;

1 summon a week with no conquest.
2 summons a week during conquest, but with 0 summons after conquest.

In the long run you potentially have less summonings. Not saying their methodology isn't incredibly flawed, but at least they're actively trying to find a solution, and even acknowledging flawed ones (as seen in the Warring Triad story). What does the Eorzea Alliance do to stop Ifrit being summoned? Nothing, they just throw prisoners of war at him at this point... We've battled Ifrit what, three times? Crispin claims to have battled him four times, so we can assume he has at least been summoned seven times without Garlean involvement, and the one time he was summoned in response to Gaius, Gaius instantly had a pretty good solution I feel... Ultima Weapon only backfired because we decided to go against it, as I recall the tribes were terrified of it robbing them of their gods and our destroying it directly resulted in them getting right back to summoning the (Hard) variants...

Honestly, our resistance to Garlemald seems more like a contributing factor in summonings than their actual conquest. Obviously that's rightful resistance, and it only happens as a result of their conquest, but they do seem to get results in the end... I don't think there was any indication of Lakshmi being a problem during the Garlean occupation. We liberate the region and now she is a persistent problem. Kinda feels like we took one step forwards on basic human rights, and two steps back on solving the Primal problem to me. For all their flaws, they seem to be doing some long term good on that front... The Eorzean Alliance, on the other hand... Well, if Ifrit is still a persistent problem, why would Lakshmi now be any different? The Ananta went from not being able to summon under tight Garlean rule, to being able to summon in the thrown room of Ala Mhigo... Successfully pushing back their conquest didn't lower the number of summonings, it increased it...

Except, the bolded part simply isn't true. Shinryu was summoned in response to Garlean occupation, long after Ala Mhigo had been subjugated. The Eorzeans left well enough alone, and in response they were faced with probably the worst primal summoned thus far. (Certainly the most violent, but given Shinryu was sustained by a desire for vengeance as opposed to faith, that's not surprising.) Be it through unwarranted aggression or brutal oppression, the Empire's methods are conducive to summoning. (Exactly as planned.)

I can't fault them for trying to find a more permanent solution, but the reality of the situation is that there simply may not be a permanent solution beyond killing anyone and anything capable of manipulating aether. Even if Gaius used the Ultima Weapon to capture all the extant primals in Eorzea, who's to stop them from summoning new ones? What of the Eorzeans, who in response to their plight could end up unintentionally summoning another primal Phoenix-style, except too powerful and destructive for the Ultima Weapon to handle? To say nothing of how the Ultima Weapon could end up being far more destructive than any primal save Bahamut (and maybe Shinryu) if given more primal chow...

No, the Eorzeans' system of "deal with them as they come up" isn't perfect, and something more permanent would be better. That said, what they're doing now is probably the best approach they have (engage the beast tribes in peaceful negotiations, try to trade their crystals away so they can't hoard enough for a summon), and as others have pointed out the whole issue is the Empire's fault in the first place (though I need to add that it's only their indirect fault - Middy screwed the pooch on that one by coiling around the Agrius and roaring to showboat when he should have been getting the kupo away from the exploding ceruleum engines...); summons were extremely rare to impossible prior to the assault on Silvertear (in Eorzea, at least).

The Empire's methods do not make things better, be it short-term (Lakshmi) or long-term (Shinryu).

[Kallera]

I'm with the OP, I'm not confident in the turn the writers have taken it, I liked the idea of the Garleans being a relatable enemy, a rival capable of their own kindness, culture, and flaws, Ascians only throw into question on whether they should have all died to begin with, put on borrowed time by a foreign entity when both gods and godslayers should want them dead, as if to make the possibility of stamping them all into the dirt more palatable when our inevitable victory comes.

But I think we are underplaying an important problem, Garlean politics has a reputation of being incredibly cutthroat. From killing claimants to the throne to concerns about assassination attempts in Kugane. That its been under the Ascian thumb since its inception takes away the idea that they are a relatable enemy. At the same time, to say the Garleans have done nothing but support the Ascians is now also suspect because of said Ascians. Not everywhere is like the Rising Stones. With a spy network, and the ability to spirit in assassins/bodysnatchers at any place. It could be very likely that most Garleans that were close to the truth or dissented from the "intended" party line found themselves killed or manipulated out of interference by Ascians. Even now we do not know whether Varis is speaking under duress, possessed, or legitimately crazy.