Demi-Summoner Idea

[Rollout]

I would honestly prefer it if there were ONE Carbuncle summon. We really don't need a tank summon after ARR, since the damage you output is so high that Titan-egi can't even hold aggro. Just make it a single Carbuncle we summon and we can change what type it is with a glamour option. Then just make us change that Carbuncle into Demi-Ifrit, Demi-Titan and Demi-Garuda with different button presses, and make all three of them just be damage dealers.

Carbuncle can use ranged attacks and strives to stick by you. You hit "Summon Demi-Ifrit" and Carbuncle turns into Demi-Ifrit and does his charge, getting into melee range and laying into the enemies automatically with the moves it would use, like the conal fire breath and standard swipes. After forty seconds, he turns back into Carbuncle, then you quickly hit "Summon Demi-Titan," who, lacking any sort of charge-like move, needs to be in melee range to hit, but since Carbuncle is in melee range from the Demi-Ifrit phase, he's in a good position. Another forty seconds pass, and Demi-Titan turns back into Carbuncle, but you hit "Summon Demi-Garuda," who then does her classic jump, showering the area with Feather Rain, rejoining your side and attacking from a range.

That's forty seconds in total for all three, 40 x 3 = 120, which is two minutes, lining up to summon Demi-Bahamut perfectly.

[Kalise]

We really don't need a tank summon after ARR, since the damage you output is so high that Titan-egi can't even hold aggro.

That's not true.

If you go full burst with Ruin III > Tri-Disaster > Fester to open, before he's got in range at all. Then yeah, you pull off him.

Otherwise, it's not too bad. I use Titan-Egi in Eureka quite a lot, he tanks stuff just fine (It's just a PITA to keep spamming Sustain all the time and having crappy Physick be crappy for self sustain >.>)

Of course, Demi-Bahamut wrecks his ability to tank by disabling him and wiping his enmity... But you can play around that and use Bahamut as a finisher for targets.

I would honestly prefer it if there were ONE Carbuncle summon.

I feel that such a thing would limit SMN, especially given that Carbuncles can be utilized to bring utility - Such as the case in this idea where Emerald provides Magic Resistance debuff making it ideal for Caster/PLD compositions. Topaz provides defense for the party via a Shield (Which will also be able to generate LB gauge) making it a nice thing to pull out for Progression raiding and for particularly potent AoE attacks. Ruby provides in this case a Direct Hit boost which is a more universal damage boost.

Then just make Demi-Ifrit, Demi-Titan and Demi-Garuda just standard attackers.

Once you've summoned all three of them, you can summon Demi-Bahamut, then repeat the rotation.

Isn't that kind of boring?

Also, basically, just Bard?

Like, I toyed with the idea of having to summon each of the 3 to get Bahamut... But in the end it just kept feeling too similar to Bard's songs which they rotate between.

I especially wanted to try and increase the synergy between Summon and Summoner, hence having iconic Primal skills couple with your own attacks (Also, to bypass any dodgy AI)

[Rollout]

That's not true.

If you go full burst with Ruin III > Tri-Disaster > Fester to open, before he's got in range at all. Then yeah, you pull off him.

Otherwise, it's not too bad. I use Titan-Egi in Eureka quite a lot, he tanks stuff just fine (It's just a PITA to keep spamming Sustain all the time and having crappy Physick be crappy for self sustain >.>)

Of course, Demi-Bahamut wrecks his ability to tank by disabling him and wiping his enmity... But you can play around that and use Bahamut as a finisher for targets.

Eureka is about the only place I would think to use Titan-egi, but that isn't how you should balance the game. If anything, I use Ifrit-egi or Garuda-egi in open world to kill the mob faster.

I feel that such a thing would limit SMN, especially given that Carbuncles can be utilized to bring utility - Such as the case in this idea where Emerald provides Magic Resistance debuff making it ideal for Caster/PLD compositions. Topaz provides defense for the party via a Shield (Which will also be able to generate LB gauge) making it a nice thing to pull out for Progression raiding and for particularly potent AoE attacks. Ruby provides in this case a Direct Hit boost which is a more universal damage boost.

I feel like making three different Carbuncle all with different types of utility would result in either one of two things... the class being too strong due to overabundant utility or people only using one type of Carbuncle, because it provides the most rDPS.

Isn't that kind of boring?

Also, basically, just Bard?

Like, I toyed with the idea of having to summon each of the 3 to get Bahamut... But in the end it just kept feeling too similar to Bard's songs which they rotate between.

I especially wanted to try and increase the synergy between Summon and Summoner, hence having iconic Primal skills couple with your own attacks (Also, to bypass any dodgy AI)

Yeah, and Bard is FUN to play. I'm not saying that Summoner isn't fun, but I strongly feel like Summoner doesn't feel like a Summoner, outside of summoning Demi-Bahamut.

I want the class to FEEL like a Summoner, even if it ends up playing similarly to Bard in some ways.

Though, when I was discussing the similar idea I had with my friends and static members, I also suggested they remove the DoTs from Summoner and give them more Summon-focused abilities, then give Scholar Bio III and Miasma III. Because then it would make sense for Miasma II to be on Scholar, but Summoner gets Miasma III????? But that's just my personal opinion on the matter.

[Kalise]

Eureka is about the only place I would think to use Titan-egi, but that isn't how you should balance the game. If anything, I use Ifrit-egi or Garuda-egi in open world to kill the mob faster.

Having a tank is also useful in other areas of the game. Heck, I relied upon him to do the job quests. He's also useful while doing FATEs solo, doing PotD/HoH etc.

Basically, Titan-Egi being a tank is actually useful if you're not just doing Duties in parties and aren't at end-of expansion gear.

I feel like making three different Carbuncle all with different types of utility would result in either one of two things... the class being too strong due to overabundant utility or people only using one type of Carbuncle, because it provides the most rDPS.

You do realise that the current Egi's have different utilities right? With Garuda providing the same 10% magic resistance debuff as Emerald Carbuncle and Ifrit providing Radiant Shield which is a physical damage increase debuff.

With them being pretty close in effectiveness.

This neither makes SMN too strong because of overabundant utility, nor makes people only use one type of Carbuncle.

Yeah, and Bard is FUN to play. I'm not saying that Summoner isn't fun, but I strongly feel like Summoner doesn't feel like a Summoner, outside of summoning Demi-Bahamut.

So you want to make Summoner feel more like Summoner by making it Bard?

Though, when I was discussing the similar idea I had with my friends and static members, I also suggested they remove the DoTs from Summoner and give them more Summon-focused abilities, then give Scholar Bio III and Miasma III. Because then it would make sense for Miasma II to be on Scholar, but Summoner gets Miasma III????? But that's just my personal opinion on the matter.

I could get into the DoTs debate, but I tried to leave most of the core gameplay of current SMN intact.

This meant keeping DoTs and skills like Fester, Bane and Tri-Disaster.

Since, honestly, the core gameplay of SMN isn't bad. Build into burst phases with DWT and then get ultra-burst phase with Demi-Bahamut.

Which is why I tried to recreate DWT phases but in a more "Summoner"-y style, where your burst phases are instead summoning Demi-Primals to come and blow stuff up for a short while. With the end reward ending up being the big bad Bahamut to come and deal huge damage.

With in-between burst phases being the standard DoT and utility management while building into the next burst phase.

[Rollout]

Having a tank is also useful in other areas of the game. Heck, I relied upon him to do the job quests. He's also useful while doing FATEs solo, doing PotD/HoH etc.

Basically, Titan-Egi being a tank is actually useful if you're not just doing Duties in parties and aren't at end-of expansion gear.

There would obviously need to be some adjustments for the job quests to make it work. I admittedly don't remember many of the pre-SB job quests, so I don't remember how much you need Topaz/Titan.

If you're doing enough damage thanks to the summons, then you won't even need a tank. And if it's something that's so strong that you'd need a tank, then it's probably something you shouldn't be soloing in the first place, no? FFXIV is an MMO, after all, so ask your fellow player for a hand.

You do realise that the current Egi's have different utilities right? With Garuda providing the same 10% magic resistance debuff as Emerald Carbuncle and Ifrit providing Radiant Shield which is a physical damage increase debuff.

With them being pretty close in effectiveness.

This neither makes SMN too strong because of overabundant utility, nor makes people only use one type of Carbuncle.

Yes, I'm aware and the community has mostly decided that Ifrit on Sic is just better, with high end players using Garuda and toggling Sic to get her to use Contagion.

So you want to make Summoner feel more like Summoner by making it Bard?

I want to make Summoner feel more like a Summoner by making the Summons the primary focus, yes. Though the theme of the rotation might be the same, they could add abilities to the Summoner to empower the Demi-summons or command them to use their other attacks as oGCDs.

I could get into the DoTs debate, but I tried to leave most of the core gameplay of current SMN intact.

This meant keeping DoTs and skills like Fester, Bane and Tri-Disaster.

Since, honestly, the core gameplay of SMN isn't bad. Build into burst phases with DWT and then get ultra-burst phase with Demi-Bahamut.

Which is why I tried to recreate DWT phases but in a more "Summoner"-y style, where your burst phases are instead summoning Demi-Primals to come and blow stuff up for a short while. With the end reward ending up being the big bad Bahamut to come and deal huge damage.

With in-between burst phases being the standard DoT and utility management while building into the next burst phase.

As I said, I don't think Summoner, at the base level as a job, is a bad concept. Rather, it just doesn't FEEL like a Summoner, it feels like a DoT mage that has a pet. I only feel like a summoner every two minutes, when I bring out Demi-Bahamut. Hell, half the time, I'm not even that concerned with my pet, since they're immune to most AoE damage, outside of any tankbusters that have splash damage.

[Kalise]

And if it's something that's so strong that you'd need a tank, then it's probably something you shouldn't be soloing in the first place, no? FFXIV is an MMO, after all, so ask your fellow player for a hand.

That's terrible logic for balancing stuff.

If you use that logic you can remove all offensive skills from WHM's and then claim "It's an MMO, get someone else to help you!"

As it stands, Topaz Carbuncle/Titan-Egi exist in the game. They're useful to the players who find uses for them.

Removing them because YOU simply want to make Summons boring, seems silly.

Yes, I'm aware and the community has mostly decided that Ifrit on Sic is just better, with high end players using Garuda and toggling Sic to get her to use Contagion.

Well... You just disproved your own point... Garuda with Contagion management is the highest rDPS.

Ifrit is better if you don't utilize Contagion well, or at all.

That's 2 distinct summons to use. Compared to what? "Putting the focus onto Summons" by actively removing choice of summons and making new Demi's be auto-attack bots?

At least Bard's songs have impacts on your actual rotation when you use them. With WP getting you to use Pitch Perfect when it stacks up and with MB giving you the Bloodletter/Rain of Death resets.

It sounds like your suggesting that "Demi-Summons" become basically like Army's Paeon, ever BRD's least favourite song because it's simply a passive boost to damage (Not even particularly good comparatively to other Songs too)

I want to make Summoner feel more like a Summoner by making the Summons the primary focus, yes. Though the theme of the rotation might be the same, they could add abilities to the Summoner to empower the Demi-summons or command them to use their other attacks as oGCDs.

Or... They could not make Summons auto-attack bots?

You know... Like in my suggestion? Which has the focus on Summons, including 3 basic Summons to utilize between summoning Demi's. Which has room to keep them having their other attacks as well as adding in new ones to activate (Much like how we make Bahamut use Akh Morn currently)

As I said, I don't think Summoner, at the base level as a job, is a bad concept. Rather, it just doesn't FEEL like a Summoner, it feels like a DoT mage that has a pet. I only feel like a summoner every two minutes, when I bring out Demi-Bahamut. Hell, half the time, I'm not even that concerned with my pet, since they're immune to most AoE damage, outside of any tankbusters that have splash damage.

Well... That's literally the point that I was trying to address with my idea in my Original Post.

I recommend you check it out.

It does everything you're looking for.

It puts the focus onto Summons.

It enables you to empower your Summons (Via Rouse which is tied into Dreadwyrm Trance as well as Enkindle which is on a lower CD)

It lets you tell your summons to use abilities (Via use of your own abilities, mitigating the low potencies on your own skills by having the rest of the potency brought by your summons)

It lets you feel like a Summoner more frequently, by letting you summon a Demi every minute and Bahamut every 3 minutes (Meaning a total of 4 Demi's per 3 minutes) - Without having this "Perma-Demi" style that would devalue the impact of summoning a Demi-Primal to the equivalent of a BRD swapping songs.