Celests opinion bout the state of tanks

[Emiin]

Let's clear up a few things in your opinion piece that I think should be addressed. I'm not trying to change your opinion - you've obviously got a strong one and you want to hold it. I want to fix your mindset about said opinion.

this game first start'd rolls where determined by tank. dps and healer. I for one do not like where tank jobs are going -minus warrior. cause well warrior. always been warrior. their always this primary focus on damage. rather it be magic damage or physical damage.

For starters, amusingly since the design of ARR, Paladin was the first tank to get a dedicated offensive stance. Warrior's defensive stance (post 2.1 fixes) was much more tankier and optimal for main tanking in ARR. The ideal scenario in ARR tanking was Defiance Warrior MT and Sword Oath Paladin ST. The fact that other tanks are keeping up with Warrior's offensives from HW are a sign of balance, not of design shift.

Random ideas about skills, tank stance changes

The tank stance thing I agree with, and disagree with. What needs to be understood about tank stance is it's design is not one to be maintained while you are tanking. It is designed to be a fallback/crutch ability. Once you are comfortable with a fight, it is meant to be turned off.
The abilities concept of WoW Intervention-esque abilities is removing the design that Square is going with WRT Paladin, and it's abilities of Cover, and Intervention. There is a design philosophy that they may be trying to improve/dive into as they've mentioned in Stormblood.
TLDR: You have these abilities, just play the other tank.

3. no more damage skills no please. idea of being tank is be your teams sheild tank damage over them reducing it supporting them every see bits. while contributating to small abounts of dps

A few things must be understood with regards to tanks currently not using tank stance, and defensive cooldown usage, and I'll respond to this bit with a few points.

1) You are, still, the team's "Shield." You, as a tank, take the brunt of attacks. Any other class at this would be destroyed.
b) You have cooldowns available to you. You assume all tanks who mainline offensive stance do not use cooldowns. This is an incredibly false label. A majority of good tanks plan their cooldown usage which minimalizes healing, and avoids tank stance as much as possible. Here is an example of a cooldown map I have used in the past. You're confusing the design of the game with people being bad at their class.
iii) The design of the game very much facilitates the use of offensive stances after a group has learned an encounter. It should be understood that outside of very brief moments (which for the most part are ignored by invulnerabilities), tank incoming damage is not scary. Here is an example of one of the scarier moments in tank damage in recent, non ultimate history. It is two high damage multi-hit busters which baseline do around 50k and 70k respectively, followed by a 100k damage buster which, with cooldowns, is nullified. Tank damage is not scary, with proper planning. Because of this, tanks are found in offensive stance, contributing more to their team than defensive stance would. Proper utilization of defensives, along with coordination with your team, will allow you to contribute the most that you can. Which, in the current design of this game, is DPS. We do not do it because we are greedy damage goblins. We do it because in the end, it is optimal.

Again, you are confusing the concept of bad design, with bad play. You seem to have met more people who play badly, as opposed to a game that is designed poorly. Step up your game, as well as talking to others, in order to make them change how they play to be less of a detriment to their team.

P.S. For the record, if outgoing tank damage was lowered, those who enjoy tanking in this game would still be tanking. I for one, believe that tank output should be like...2/3rds of what it is now. I still find tanking fun. Searching for numbers is a bonus.

[kidalutz]

P.S. For the record, if outgoing tank damage was lowered, those who enjoy tanking in this game would still be tanking. I for one, believe that tank output should be like...2/3rds of what it is now. I still find tanking fun. Searching for numbers is a bonus.

They'd have to increase Enmity again if that was the case so the DPS wasnt able to RIP aggro because tank wasnt doing enough damage to keep things pissed at them.

[Kabooa]

They'd have to increase Enmity again if that was the case so the DPS wasnt able to RIP aggro because tank wasnt doing enough damage to keep things pissed at them.

Yeah, if only they had things like Extra Threat generation on weaponskills and a stance, or something.

[kidalutz]

Yeah, if only they had things like Extra Threat generation on weaponskills and a stance, or something.

Uh huh yup because you know nobody would get pissy when the tank never left sheild stance just so they could keep aggro if they hit for 2/3rds less damage yup alright.. moving on.

[Kabooa]

Uh huh yup because you know nobody would get pissy when the tank never left sheild stance just so they could keep aggro if they hit for 2/3rds less damage yup alright.. moving on.

How is it different from just staying in Sword oath all the time?

You realize in this current state of the game, even if tanks took a straight up 20% damage nerf, all that changes is that the main tank doesn't get to enjoy the opener, because they'd have to stay in tank stance longer.

That's it. That's the only difference. They'd otherwise play functionally the same.

[Kurando]

So let's say we take OP's ideas and implement them, the ideology would need to be extended to healers because just like tanks they have their own responsibilities therefore unless they are DPS, they shouldn't be dealing damage at all. See now that isn't going to work because unless the combat system is completely revamped so that tanks HAVE to stay in tank stance more often or healers HAVE to constantly be healing, then players are going to find the jobs quite boring with all the downtime, dealing damage offers contribution more than doing nothing.

tired getting idiots in duty finder run full dungeons sword oath under-geared dont pop any cooldown downs pull up 10-20 monsters and expect you to heal them. this needs be punished this need to stop.

You can get idiots on every job out there not just tanks.

[CelestaRosa]

what you say is true that you find these idiots. their is huge difference.

when dps acts like idiot sure boss takes longer to kill. healer can raise or caster dps. but when tank acts like idiot they kill the whole team. and instead saying "Im sorry i pulled too much" they look at their blame them for their terrible decisions as a tank. this was their fault team wiped. lack of paying attention. looking at their party gear and making propar choices that make party enjoyable for everyone. not just themselfs. selfish this isn't then type of job for you

these people don't understand concept if your tanking you have/shared responsability with the healer. keep and protect your team keep them alive. ive seen more and more tanks throw this responsibility aside just to do more damage this is unacceptable. borderline trolly. should be dealt with

when call them selfish cause their play-style is selfish mean other day saw tank let healer have aggro cause hes like to do damage. then turn around blame healer for dieing. seriously?

this is type generation of tanks we having 22% really good tanks 88% complete garbage and the skill we get support the ones that are garbage

not only that have fast que. course you don't understand how dps have long queue. and get captain retard tanking for you. when tried help them. they get toxic clearly they don't need any help cause in their best tank in world but in reality their awful.

theirs lot things started this - 1-60 leveling boost - now we have people doing omega don't even know what limit break is. this biggiest mistake SE ever did cause now we got players never experenced their class learned about them at our level trying. giving all tanks and healers ability to cut or reduce their aggro. not giving taanks ability cap close aoe stun. stuns not working on bosses stuns not working on some monsters. stuns dimishing returns shared with whole party but if they do that then have problems with stun locking bosses

[Kalise]

when dps acts like idiot sure boss takes longer to kill. healer can raise or caster dps. but when tank acts like idiot they kill the whole team. and instead saying "Im sorry i pulled too much" they look at their blame them for their terrible decisions as a tank. this was their fault team wiped. lack of paying attention. looking at their party gear and making propar choices that make party enjoyable for everyone. not just themselfs. selfish this isn't then type of job for you

I like how you conveniently missed out idiot healers.

Also, in content that matters, idiot DPS means bosses hit Enrage timer and kills everyone.

Idiot healers cause tons of wipes, because even a Tank who's playing super defensively can't get through content with no heals.

It's also interesting that you point out "Making proper choices that make party enjoyable for everyone" and then proceed to discount the effect of idiot DPS. Personally, I don't find it enjoyable to need to take 60+ minutes to clear a 50/60 Dungeon Roulette. But such things can happen when DPS are idiots. When Healers are idiots. Or even when Tanks are idiots.

In short, idiots are not fun to deal with, irregardless of what role they are playing.

Ruining the fun for not-idiots to try and cater for idiots has been a running theme for Tanks in MMO's. Which has done nothing to actually help people actually play the role and most importantly, play the role properly.

Even if you DID make Tanks only have a single stance and made them have only enmity combo's... Idiots will still find a way to not use them or to pull too much and never use CD's. Since, idiots always find a way to transcend stupidity and reach the levels of advanced stupid.