Dispensers of fiery explosions, light me up... with your ideas for BLM in 5.0

[Archwizard]

I think I may have been misinterpreted somewhat with regards to the discussion on BLM survivability.

By all means, keep Manaward. It may not necessarily fit the theme of the class, but it does fit a much-needed niche in the kit; between Convert and its mostly stationary nature, BLM having a survival tool is not outlandish. Arguably, every class should have some form of survival skill just to have something to pop in the face of raidwide hits (like having Titan-Egi split damage for the SMN or letting RDM summon a barrier of swords like Noctis that hit back).
The only part where it becomes concerning is when BLM is expected to soak damage with such a barrier, treating its survivability as an "above average" active utility when the truth is BLM is intended to be one of the squishier classes (especially as, classically, RDMs should have better armor/physical stats than BLMs, and SMNs had emergency summons like Phoenix or effects that full-healed them upon summoning).

If we're supposed to have a job good for soaking, implement Reflect as someone's survival skill. Otherwise I'd say have BLM get some more mileage out of Drain, and potentially remove it from the Caster Role Actions to make it BLM exclusive given it's useless to the self-healers.

[Lauront]

We're not dealing with the classical RDM so much as FFXIV's reinterpretation of it, but granted the job has retained the fencing element to it so to me evasion or retaliation based physical defences would make sense. Vercure already puts them ahead of either other caster in terms of survivability at a conceptual level - at a practical level, Manaward is better in many ways, due to being an OGCD and mitigative in nature.

So I think it'd be fine to render Manaward into a role-wide action, because it's niche-agnostic enough to serve such a function and ultimately it is probably simpler to form aether into a barrier than it is to get it to heal a being's wounds.

Each could then focus on a unique defence that distinguishes the job - for BLM, leeching spells like a revised Drain/Necrogenesis as well as a reformulated AM could do the trick. For SMN, I'd like some ability that let you swap places with the egi and/or temporary shared damage, especially if Sustain was improved to be an instant OGCD, or even baked into some other spell. I've mentioned before I like your idea for RDM of the sword barrier as a RDM defensive CD.

Interestingly enough, Firaga has a longer cast time than its CD... 8s Cast, 7s CD

Indeed! No thanks to those long cast times. I like the combo aspect to them but there's not many ways you could mimic it; perhaps tying them to TC procs building up but it's already an unreliable portion of the BLM's damage output due to RNG. Alternatively have an accumulated resource that eventually turned the spell into Burst. Yet it'd face the same issue, so again it's just a reward for good RNG more than anything else. Probably would make sense to tie it to some spell like Fire IV for that reason. Even if not in the sense of a spell to be unleashed in Umbral, and just as a spell which required some build up.

Honestly though, there were some rather intriguing spells in the 1.0 repertoire, so I'm rather eager to see if they draw on and reinterpret them in some fashion.

[Archwizard]

Alternatively have an accumulated resource that eventually turned the spell into Burst. Yet it'd face the same issue, so again it's just a reward for good RNG more than anything else. Probably would make sense to tie it to some spell like Fire IV for that reason. Even if not in the sense of a spell to be unleashed in Umbral, and just as a spell which required some build up.

What, like "Fire IV generates 1 Astral Heart, Burst consumes all Astral Hearts to cast"?

I suppose that would be a nice way to break up our AF phase, if Astral Hearts are limited to that phase... though I don't see enough how that alone connects back to our Thunder spells...

[Lauront]

It doesn't directly connect it to them. My point was more that there's few ways to make it work given Thunder's current functionality.

If it just tied into how long the Thunder spell was up, to eradicate the RNG aspect, it'd effectively add another timer like Polyglot. If it required TC procs, you're bringing RNG into it, especially if it requires multiple procs, even if hard-cast Thunders counted towards it. Perhaps the easiest way to tie it into Thunder spells would be to just require a single proc, since you can force one anyway through Sharpcast. However, at that point it does seem like just building up Astral Hearts from F4 and having them modify your subsequent Thunder becomes an easier, more intuitive route.

[Kalise]

So... I was curious...

I designed a potential new Job Gauge using my excellent MS Paint skills (Note: Actual artistic abilities may differ drastically to those advertised)



I was wondering if it could get some creative juices flowing about the possibilities!

The changes I made, was putting the Enochian timer as a second ring, so the timer works like a clock, going from 12 to 12. With the centre gem now being the Polyglot crystal.

The portion of the gauge that shows AF/UI stacks, will now change depending on which phase is active. Becoming all frosty and icy during UI and all fiery and whatnot during AF.

With the remaining gauge split into 3 sections to hold Umbral Hearts, Astral Hearts and Penumbral Hearts. Aspected towards Ice, Fire and Lightning respectively.

My immediate designs was with 3 spaces for each, because uniformity is neat. But there's potential to alter that.

Buuuuuut... With now the possibility of having 3 different types of Hearts generated... There can be some options for utilizing conditional spells.

The trick is figuring out how to generate Astral/Penumbral Hearts and how to expend them. (Potentially also, altering Umbral Hearts instead of them being used just to fuel AF phase, specifically, just spamming Fire IV for cheaper?)

Initial examples could be something like:

* Thunder casts generate Penumbral Heart. 3 Penumbral Hearts can be expended to cast Burst. (This basically puts it on a "every third rotation" timer since Thunder only wants to be cast during one of the GCD's in UI phase. With potential for more frequent usage if TC procs when movement is necessary)

* Fire IV casts generate Astral Heart. 3 Astral Hearts can be expended to cast Comet (Wouldn't really change much about AF phase though... Either it would refresh AF and then it's still just 313 maybe with enough SpS you'd 3131. Or if it didn't refresh AF then you'd just 3112...)

[Lauront]

You could add a further function, like with the DRG's eye gauge, where as Polyglot stacked, it changed colour, maybe bringing in some Void-inspired spells (modal alterations of existing ones) as its timer stacked to the right point.

I think it's a decent enough idea, though, particularly if Umbral Hearts were reworked to feed into a high-powered ice spell rather than discounting fire spells, inheriting the discount effect.

The ice spell could have a magic vulnerability debuff affixed to it - if B4 was changed so as to confer 1 heart as opposed to a full 3 (you could have Sharpcast's function change or added to, to enable the spell to be ready early on in the rotation, maybe in such a way that it allows these spells to be cast without the requisite hearts), it'd effectively be available every 3 cycles and you wouldn't fall into the trouble of tying it to a spell with RNG heart generation attached to it.

As for Burst, an effect like Excruciate could be built into it, usage of which would vary based on when a spell like Foul becomes ready to try get the most out of it - maybe have it ignore the Ice spells to avoid messing with transitions to UI.

Comet could easily just inherit Fire 1's place in the rotation. An effect that would be cool would be a buff that converts Firestarter procs to affect Flare. I honestly don't see much need for Fire 1 to remain there. It's not a particularly visually enticing spell - it's just there to keep AF up. In fact, if Comet replaced F1 and the ice spell B1, you wouldn't even need new buttons for them.

[Llugen]

If a NIN misses their Trick Attack positional and it doesn't grant the debuff, their entire justification is lost. For example.

Also, if anyone dies, their contribution is lost. Unless you mean to tell me that Bards continue singing their songs while they're dead?

No matter how bad you are at Bard, if you press Battle Voice every 3 minutes during the burst window, you have benefited the party. Even if your NIN missed Trick Attack and died, they still got to use Smokescreen and Shadewalker.

Obviously you don't want your party to die, but you cannot look me in the eye and say these classes' entire contributions were lost upon death, because they weren't.

So what utility should the job get?
I think BLM deserves its own mana manipulating tool outside of just mana shift. I might suggest a tether style buff that regens the target's mana for 15s as long as they're in range but doesn't actually affect your own mana.
A really simple fix that I think I said earlier in this thread would be anyone in range of a BLM that has Enochian up receives some kind of stat buff a la Bard and their songs. This would both favor uptime AND encourage BLMs to stay within range of aoe heals.
Another good one might be a 3 minute CD that destroys your own Ley Lines circle and expands a speed buff on the party, so every other one you could use it.


About the job gauge, I think that there is a perfect opportunity for them to add stacked Firestarters and Thunderclouds on the job gauge. That way you can save them up and then use them just like the Umbral Hearts are used. Or if you will, could work similar to pitch perfect where using the Thundercloud/Firestarter with 3 stacks means it does increased damage. However, I don't really think the job needs to juggle any more timers than it already does, so I would probably be against something like an Astral Heart. Sooner, I want an AoE spell that grants a single Umbral Heart so you don't have to be bothered casting Blizzard IV in a massive mob (Freeze is a great candidate for this).

Also a good thing to keep in mind is that they do NOT want the game/classes to be extremely complex. I don't think anyone can argue that BLM is probably one of the most brain-dead jobs in the game rotation-wise, it's true, but that is another thing to keep in mind when suggesting rotation/skill changes.

On this note, for the love of god do not give us something that has an 8 second cast time, no matter how powerful it is. That would be torture not only because dodging aoes would cut its value extremely hard but also because it's just not compelling gameplay to press one button and then sit there for 8 seconds while something casts, no matter how big the 'splosion is.

After using Bloodbath in Eureka it would be hella fun to have necrogenesis for that purpose, but I feel like that would be better suited to being on SMN since they currently are the only job in the game that has no self recovery/defense tool (discounting Drain of course).


I desperately want to see Fire I removed from the main rotation. It is appalling that we are level 70, have enhanced enochian and all these powerful spells, yet we still have to rely on the level 4 dinky little spark that flies from our staff to keep up our rotation. Absolutely appalling. If my suggestion regarding Firestarter being granted after using all three Umbral Hearts before refreshing Astral were implemented, that would solve removoing Fire I from the rotation so long as you didn't have to do any really crazy movement.

[Kalise]

No matter how bad you are at Bard, if you press Battle Voice every 3 minutes during the burst window, you have benefited the party. Even if your NIN missed Trick Attack and died, they still got to use Smokescreen and Shadewalker.

Obviously you don't want your party to die, but you cannot look me in the eye and say these classes' entire contributions were lost upon death, because they weren't.

Oh yeah, I forgot the part where whenever a BLM dies, the boss gets healed.

My bad.

After using Bloodbath in Eureka it would be hella fun to have necrogenesis for that purpose, but I feel like that would be better suited to being on SMN since they currently are the only job in the game that has no self recovery/defense tool (discounting Drain of course).

Well...

SMN could just have their Physick scale with INT. Or could have Sustain affect themselves too.

Both of these are healing skills currently within SMN's kit.

They could also get some synergy with Titan-Egi, such as sharing damage with it or having Earthen Ward affect them too.

[Lauront]

About the job gauge, I think that there is a perfect opportunity for them to add stacked Firestarters and Thunderclouds on the job gauge. That way you can save them up and then use them just like the Umbral Hearts are used. Or if you will, could work similar to pitch perfect where using the Thundercloud/Firestarter with 3 stacks means it does increased damage. However, I don't really think the job needs to juggle any more timers than it already does, so I would probably be against something like an Astral Heart. Sooner, I want an AoE spell that grants a single Umbral Heart so you don't have to be bothered casting Blizzard IV in a massive mob (Freeze is a great candidate for this).

Also a good thing to keep in mind is that they do NOT want the game/classes to be extremely complex. I don't think anyone can argue that BLM is probably one of the most brain-dead jobs in the game rotation-wise, it's true, but that is another thing to keep in mind when suggesting rotation/skill changes.

On this note, for the love of god do not give us something that has an 8 second cast time, no matter how powerful it is. That would be torture not only because dodging aoes would cut its value extremely hard but also because it's just not compelling gameplay to press one button and then sit there for 8 seconds while something casts, no matter how big the 'splosion is.

After using Bloodbath in Eureka it would be hella fun to have necrogenesis for that purpose, but I feel like that would be better suited to being on SMN since they currently are the only job in the game that has no self recovery/defense tool (discounting Drain of course).


I desperately want to see Fire I removed from the main rotation. It is appalling that we are level 70, have enhanced enochian and all these powerful spells, yet we still have to rely on the level 4 dinky little spark that flies from our staff to keep up our rotation. Absolutely appalling. If my suggestion regarding Firestarter being granted after using all three Umbral Hearts before refreshing Astral were implemented, that would solve removoing Fire I from the rotation so long as you didn't have to do any really crazy movement.

They can simply add separate tools to SMN for that purpose, tied to the egi, and keep a Necrogenesis-like effect for BLM.

I also don't think what she suggested makes it particularly more complex. The timer UI would be a bit more convoluted, which is my main concern about it, but especially if you're phasing Fire 1 out (same could be done with Blizzard 1) and talking about spells added in after the resource accumulation is completed, it's not exactly massive changes. The UI would just alert you to when the spells can be cast, which would be intuitive enough from execution of the rotation.

In regards to the ice spell for AOE, I agree that Freeze would be a good pick for an AOE effect of the sort you describe, particularly if there were changes made to B4's mechanic. Also agreed on long cast times, it's just a stupid idea in the current environment, but I don't think anyone's asking for that and I doubt SE would revert to such a model.

[Archwizard]

To be fair, I don't think there's a need to have multiple types of "Hearts" stacked on the gauge, depending on how they are executed. Umbral Hearts are already consumed by every Fire spell (if not cleared outright by Flare), so if for instance...

Each Fire IV generates one Astral Heart, and Flare generates one Astral Heart per target struck, up to three. Astral Hearts only last while Astral Fire is active.
When you have 3 Astral Hearts, your next Thunder III upgrades into Burst, an oGCD which restores MP equal to the cost of Thunder IV and deals instant damage to the target and nearby enemies, but consumes Thunder effects on affected targets for bonus damage based on the DoT damage remaining. (Sharpcast can be used on Burst to proc Thundercloud.)

... then you would never see a full gauge of both Astral and Umbral Hearts at the same time (at best 2/1 or vice versa). No need to bring in "Penumbral" effects for Thunder either -- I fear we are quickly running on tracking too much in the job gauge (between Polyglot, AF/UI and Hearts), and the only reason to even consider Astral Hearts would be if they were exclusive with Umbral.

And again... really don't think we need Comet, when it's basically Skyshard, and Meteor is already our LB3.