I just got kicked from a dungeon because of the sounds my Lala makes when she attacks

[TroySoFab]

Saying "let it go and just move on" isn't the same as saying "what that guy did was great/okay/excusable".

Except it kinda is the same thing. It has the same effect. Letting it go and moving on doesn't help to stop this from happening again, the same as if you just excused the problem.

And yes, I do see people getting kicked or harassed in dungeons as a problem. This wasn't a "play style" difference, it was just another player being mean spirited.

[Noitems]

I'm fairly certain AxlStream isn't saying the behavior is okay. It was a stupid thing to do, and whoever kicked the OP is probably as foolish as his actions.

Pretty sure he's saying that the OP should just shrug things like this off because they aren't that important. People like whoever kicked the OP from the party aren't worth the time of day; they aren't worth a second thought. And if they were petty enough to kick over voice sounds, what else would they have been petty over if the OP hadn't been kicked?

Here's a line from the Prohibited Activities line on the ToS page:
Improper expulsion voting
This means excluding another person by manipulation of expulsion voting"

SE recently made a lodestone post to update these policies back in Feb of this year, due to XIV's growing popularity but to also reach out to issues like this in the first place. Here's a link to their lodestone posting going into more details on how it's changed not only in the rules but how GM's approach these issues https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...216f5aef769c60
So if we're saying it's not okay then why are we letting these people slide away with no action? If it's wrong it's our job as a community to point it out, report it to a GM and blacklist them. Having thoughts like walking it off is a good idea in theory, but it's a hivemind mentality which will only lead to more people letting these kickers slide by without any remorse.

Think about yourself yes, but remember it's an online game, meaning thousands upon thousands play it together. You may not see them again, but chances are someone else could be subjected to the same behavior which they may not have the same idea as you. If you think it's wrong, and it's listed under the Prohibited Activities, you should report it. Not asking for an entire essay like this conversation we're having here, just do your part in making the community better.

I was in Orbonne Monastery once where A group continuously and purposefully wiped on the third boss so that the reset timer would pass and theyd get credit on the new day. I got two choices: Complain about it, get pissed and ruminate on it, or after a moment shrug and find another instance and not let it get to me.

Here's a line right from the same page
"Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person's game play by some means."
Your example above falls into that category and you feel that one proper action is to just ignore it? Same reasoning as above.

[HyoMinPark]

Except it kinda is the same thing. It has the same effect. Letting it go and moving on doesn't help to stop this from happening again, the same as if you just excused the problem.

And yes, I do see people getting kicked or harassed in dungeons as a problem. This wasn't a "play style" difference, it was just another player being mean spirited.

Except it's not. Telling someone "don't let it bother you" is not the same as excusing or defending the actions of someone who does something stupid or mean-spirited. If AxlStream or Melichor or myself had said "What that guy did was fine; not against the rules" - THAT'S defending him. But telling OP to not let it bother them? Not a defense. Differentiate between the two, please.

So what do you do? If you really feel like you have to "take action": report, and then move on. What else can you do? Making a thread that is now 12 pages isn't going to make people stop. Nor will it do anything to the offender.

You can report, vent to your friends, make a post in the Tales of the DF thread, and go about your day. Or you can wallow and let it get under your skin. Which are you going to choose? I'd prefer the first option. People like this guy aren't worth my time.

Here's a line from the Prohibited Activities line on the ToS page:
Improper expulsion voting
This means excluding another person by manipulation of expulsion voting"

SE recently made a lodestone post to update these policies back in Feb of this year, due to XIV's growing popularity but to also reach out to issues like this in the first place. Here's a link to their lodestone posting going into more details on how it's changed not only in the rules but how GM's approach these issues https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...216f5aef769c60

I’m well aware of the new “rules”, thank you.

I think the manipulation line you’ve quoted doesn’t really apply to this situation though. Unless the guy was threatening the other party members with vote dismissals or whatever else, they weren’t “manipulating” them. If the people were his friends and agreed to it, that’s also not manipulation—it just means they’re as dumb as him. If the people were strangers and just voted whatever, well either they didn’t read the chat or didn’t care. And perhaps that sucks, but what does making a thread on the OF do to help that?

So if we're saying it's not okay then why are we letting these people slide away with no action? If it's wrong it's our job as a community to point it out, report it to a GM and blacklist them. Having thoughts like walking it off is a good idea in theory, but it's a hivemind mentality which will only lead to more people letting these kickers slide by without any remorse.

Making a thread on the Official Forums is not how you bring attention to the action. You report it to the GMs if you want them to know. They can’t do anything with this thread. If you want to vent, that’s fine. We have a 2,000+ page thread just for that. No need to drag out your own misery, though.

And then what do you do after you report it? You move on. If action is taken, it will be taken—be it a warning, a suspension, or a ban. You’ll never know if action was taken, but that’s on purpose.

Think about yourself yes, but remember it's an online game, meaning thousands upon thousands play it together. You may not see them again,

Which is why you let it go after you report, if you really feel like the action was deserving of a report.

but chances are someone else could be subjected to the same behavior which they may not have the same idea as you. If you think it's wrong, and it's listed under the Prohibited Activities, you should report it. Not asking for an entire essay like this conversation we're having here, just do your part in making the community better.

And if other people report this same person—if he doesn’t learn from what he did and any consequences he may suffer—he will be dealt with again. And eventually, he will lose his account.

Here's a line right from the same page
"Other obstruction of play
This means all other behaviour that deliberately obstructs another person's game play by some means."
Your example above falls into that category and you feel that one proper action is to just ignore it? Same reasoning as above.

I think the proper action is to not wallow in it and let it get under your skin—I think it clearly got under the OP’s skin, and I think they should do themselves a favor a let it go. You realize that people like this guy probably enjoy getting people riled up? So why give him the satisfaction. It bothers bullies like this guy far more if you shrug things off.

I’m not a person with a really thick skin—however, keyboard warriors like this guy aren’t worth my time or effort to think about. If I think something is report worthy, I report it. If I don’t, I don’t. I don’t make a forum post about it AND a thread about it. There’s no need for that.

[JBee]

Except it's not. Telling someone "don't let it bother you" is not the same as excusing or defending the actions of someone who does something stupid or mean-spirited. If AxlStream or Melichor or myself had said "What that guy did was fine; not against the rules" - THAT'S defending him. But telling OP to not let it bother them? Not a defense. Differentiate between the two, please.

So what do you do? If you really feel like you have to "take action": report, and then move on. What else can you do? Making a thread that is now 12 pages isn't going to make people stop. Nor will it do anything to the offender.

You can report, vent to your friends, make a post in the Tales of the DF thread, and go about your day. Or you can wallow and let it get under your skin. Which are you going to choose? I'd prefer the first option. People like this guy aren't worth my time.

The thread is 12 pages long because people find it worth discussing, on one side or the other, or are trying to offer up some kindness to the op, etc. They didn't make a 12 page post, they made a simple post that people found worth discussing. Why shouldn't they have made their own post about their own incident and instead of posting in a thread of over 2000 pages? Agree with the spirit of your sentiment though - don't let jerks ruin your day, in game or out. But I do believe there are consequences for our actions - both good and bad.

No, we shouldn't let negative experiences stick to us and should let everything be water off our collective backs - but we're human. Sometimes things happen that are not as easy to readily let go of, for whatever reason. Telling someone there was no need to make a perfectly valid post on an internet forum expressing frustration isn't going to help anything, either. If it were an inappropriate place for them to do so, the forum moderation team can handle that.



I admit, I stopped reading the rest of your post there because of this line:

Differentiate between the two, please.

Maybe you should be less aggressive in your choice of words - you're not the forum's parent or police.

[AxlStream]

Since when did I say I approved of kicking the OP? I'm just saying the rational course of action would of been to just move on. Stop trying to accuse me of something I never said or implied.

[Noitems]

So what do you do? If you really feel like you have to "take action": report, and then move on. What else can you do? Making a thread that is now 12 pages isn't going to make people stop. Nor will it do anything to the offender.

That is how I would approach the situation as well. The reason I think this thread being here in the first place is very important. We're seeing so many different views from people, on what they view is right and worthy of reporting or just simply ignoring it.

The OP stated that one other person in the group told them it's an easy way to get banned, would be pretty simple for kicker to raise a point about the voice and have the others follow in suit as there's already an issue. May not have been the best line to be quoted and I'm sure someone else can find one that makes more sense, but honestly it should be pretty obvious this whole fiasco violated a ToS agreement in some way shape and or form.

I'm glad you share my opinion on reporting it and moving on. However not reporting it and letting it go is an issue, which is really what the heart of my argument is all about. I understand if you feel they're not worth YOUR time, but choosing to not report it when you clearly know it's wrong is a big issue no matter how you look at it. Yeah it's annoying but letting someone else pick up for something you know is bad, and can actively vent about in a dedicated thread on the forum should be taken a little more seriously. I wouldn't really say you have a solid point to even complain over in that thread if you personally didn't take action against them. For an comparison it's like complaining about a work party ordering a specific type of cake you don't like when you didn't bother voting on it. You can complain if they got that one but it's not exactly going to be a strong argument.

Again I feel reporting and blacklisting is what most people agree is totally fine, we don't need a thread this long for EVERY single issue we get as we play. Is having a single thread stretch this long about an issue where people's view of a gray area is all over the place a good thing? Right now I'd say so as it's allowing us to communicate about this issue in a calm manner.

I'm just gonna stick to my general point of just doing the right thing when you see something like this, report it, blacklist it, and maybe post to the Duty Finder thread to vent it out if you need to.

We report RMT bots all the time, why should this be valued any different?

[HyoMinPark]

I admit, I stopped reading the rest of your post there because of this line:

Maybe you should be less aggressive in your choice of words - you're not the forum's parent or police.

If you think that’s aggressive, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Telling someone to please learn the difference between excusing/defending an action and someone offering advice that says “don’t let it get to you” is not an aggressive statement, nor is it me trying to act like the “forum police” or their “parent”. It’s me telling them to politely learn/see what the difference is.
Ironic that you want to accuse me of policing though when you ignore the rest my post just to make a comment on my word choice or the way I phrase things.

I apologize that I’m not good at sugarcoating, and that my word choice comes off as aggressive.

The thread is 12 pages long because people find it worth discussing, on one side or the other, or are trying to offer up some kindness to the op, etc. They didn't make a 12 page post, they made a simple post that people found worth discussing. Why shouldn't they have made their own post about their own incident and instead of posting in a thread of over 2000 pages?

I just want to ask you: do you think everyone that ever has an issue with a duty—be it with Vote Dismissal or something else—should make a thread to vent? Or should they just not post it in the thread dedicated to venting and commiserating where plenty of forum posters can and will still see their post? And sympathize/offer advice?

OP seems new to the OF, so perhaps they didn’t know about the thread—I know it’s fallen off the front page a few times with all the discussion about Shadowbringers and topics about the new jobs/races—but that’s not the reason I’m even in here to begin with—

It’s with the misconception that telling someone to not let something bother them equates to that person defending the wrong action.

[Noitems]

I'm just saying the rational course of action would of been to just TO REPORT IT TO THE GM'S, BLACKLIST THE PERSON and move on.

FTFY as you didn't even mention it in your post, which is the entire root of the issue. If you feel that it's not worth your time then I don't really think you have a horse in this race. It just honestly takes maybe at most about two minutes to write down the issue in the support desk and send it off. I could warm up a hot pocket in the amount of time it takes to send the report in.

And by not exactly having a proper word on this you're by extension support the kicking of the OP by allowing this behavior the run rampant. At least voicing your opinion through the support desk is showing that you do actually care about stuff like this, mate.

[WaterShield]

The thread is 12 pages long because people find it worth discussing, on one side or the other, or are trying to offer up some kindness to the op, etc. They didn't make a 12 page post, they made a simple post that people found worth discussing. Why shouldn't they have made their own post about their own incident and instead of posting in a thread of over 2000 pages? Agree with the spirit of your sentiment though - don't let jerks ruin your day, in game or out. But I do believe there are consequences for our actions - both good and bad.

No, we shouldn't let negative experiences stick to us and should let everything be water off our collective backs - but we're human. Sometimes things happen that are not as easy to readily let go of, for whatever reason. Telling someone there was no need to make a perfectly valid post on an internet forum expressing frustration isn't going to help anything, either. If it were an inappropriate place for them to do so, the forum moderation team can handle that.



I admit, I stopped reading the rest of your post there because of this line:



Maybe you should be less aggressive in your choice of words - you're not the forum's parent or police.

... and you are?

Coming across a bit aggressive yourself.

[AxlStream]

This is a new level of grasping that I have only heard legends of, but here I am experiencing it firsthand.

Don't take this the wrong way but I think you need to take a breather. You'll end up with a cramp with that amount of mental gymnastics.