Gender locked race?

[reivaxe]

Do I really think that FFXIV will have a gender design contest? No. Do I think they should? Yes. Because clearly they need some feedback and numbers and images are pretty easy to disseminate. However, I do, 100% think that they will release Hrothgals and Viera males. And from every interview that's already come out, it's very clear that resource management was the biggest issue here, along with trying to appease two groups. It's a classic case of wanting to eat their cake and have it too. And if they had double the resources to handle remodeling thousands of gear pieces, they very likely would have handed us two playable races in 5.0. Everything just snowballed into a messy, messy release.

People continue to think this is some kinda one shot and be done non-sense. Making a new race in THIS game requires not just the time, resources and man power to make them (Including going back and retro fitting every armor and emote and hair style released to work on them) but also supporting them moving forward. More body shapes for them means every thing that can be applied to a player's toon is now harder to make moving forward. There are currently 6 races (7 if you count Highlands as their own thing) and adding 2 more would increase the work load for ALL glam and emotes and jobs and so on by 1/3.

THAT'S why they say that this is it. According to them this is all they can handle and still give us content at the pace they have been. There is no "wellllll, just make Viera 5.0 and then do Hrothgar in 6.0!" cause there is no promise that they can make more than 1 new male and female model after 5.0.

Also the reason we're in this position is because the HROTHGAR are the ones that they planned to do. After the release of the Wolf Headed people and their concept art in 4.0 a beastly race option was highly demanded. I should know because many Viera fans like myself saw these fans and told them to STFU cause there's no way we're getting something like that from SE. But they did see the desire for them and they also knew people have been wanting Viera since before Draggos were revealed. Between the 2 ... Hrothgar are what the game needs. The devs wanted it, the fans wanted beastly race and it adds so much to the game. In Yoshi's own words "We thought: “Why add more handsome races… even if we do, the biggest difference will be the ears…” ". But people have been wanting them for over 4 years and they did the best they could to honor the most people they could. This path DOES make the most people happy well also adding something to the game.

There's no profit in adding a new race, it's purely to give us more ways to express ourselves.
I don't foresee them changing anything personally. The western English speakers have a loud minority on this forum but the other OFs don't care nearly as much and by large most people don't feel strongly about this.

[Ashyra]

I hope there will be male Viera. If not in this expansion, perhaps the next. Who knows? I am female and I play a female character so this issue does not effect me directly except that I am very sympathedic to the gender lock issue, for any race.

[Ashyra]

There's no profit in adding a new race, it's purely to give us more ways to express ourselves.
I don't foresee them changing anything personally. The western English speakers have a loud minority on this forum but the other OFs don't care nearly as much and by large most people don't feel strongly about this.

New races bring players in, so there is definitely profit in that. More players, more profit. It also helps to prevent lost subs from those who get bored with the same thing and need a change.

I'm not arguing the fact because I don't know, but I am curious... how do you know "by large most people don't feel strongly about this"? I think most gamers only want to play their games and not involve themselves in forum discussions and ultimately it's very hard to know what they want or don't want until the numbers come in after the expansion is released. I am hoping the expansion will be a huge success for Square Enix and for us who play it but I think the gender lock issue is a bigger issue than they projected and will reflect in those numbers after it's release.

[reivaxe]

New races bring players in, so there is definitely profit in that. More players, more profit. It also helps to prevent lost subs from those who get bored with the same thing and need a change.

I'm not arguing the fact because I don't know, but I am curious... how do you know "by large most people don't feel strongly about this"? I think most gamers only want to play their games and not involve themselves in forum discussions and ultimately it's very hard to know what they want or don't want until the numbers come in after the expansion is released. I am hoping the expansion will be a huge success for Square Enix and for us who play it but I think the gender lock issue is a bigger issue than they projected and will reflect in those numbers after it's release.

No, content brings players and keep players. Content means things you play or do. New Jobs/ DNGs/ Raids/ events/ MSQ keep players from being bored and help make this game a quality choice for fans of MMOs. I'd like to know how you think people go about getting into this game. Think people are holding off on playing until they add "just the right new race"? Think players are going "ya know, I'm not bored with the jobs or dngs or raids or story ... but I AM tired of these races and my character! I wanna be something different than the 6 races we have, Imma unsub until they add new races I may or may not like"?

As for "How you know" you answer it in the next sentence. Unless they're banned any active player can sign up to the OF to voice their opinion. If you're an active player chances are you follow some news about this game and know about it. If someone feels strongly about this they have paths to express those feelings. Truth of the matter is that only a small % of the player base bother to come to this forum. On these very forums the Jpn side's thread on the matter is far FAR smaller clocking in at 25pages. In other, less censored spaces to talk about this game people don't bring it up nearly as much and actively buck against this whining more openly (like how Male Viera threads on reddit get down voted to hell because people who don't care have had it with this topic and the whining). Many of the same few people flood the topics for this to bump those topics and keep it visible.

This has all the makings of "vocal minority".

[BillyKaplan]

I'd like to know how you think people go about getting into this game. Think people are holding off on playing until they add "just the right new race"?

It's funny you say that, because we've seen various posts through the various threads on the matter of people who have, in fact, picked up the game after the announcement of playable Viera (and were subsequently disappointed by the locking of males).
It might not be why you specifically pick up a game, but it's more than a valid reason for others.

[Melichoir]

snip

Hmm, its more accurate to say that Content in the game keeps players busy, but if the aesthetics are limiting, content is irrelevant.

If everyone was teh exact same player model, there would be far fewer players. Part of MMOs and their appeal is that part that we tend to leave off. You know, the RPG part. This entails broadly an aspect of role playing, and races fill that necessity. It actually is a turn on or off for some players if they dotn find any of the playable races aesthetically appealing. As an example, I never played the original GW cause the race aspect didnt appeal to me. Game couldve been fine, but I liked WoW for that character diversity.

And yeah, if people unsub over the gender thing (which some people have already) that is their choice. You can think its stupid, but if SE isnt providing the player what they want, why should the player continue paying for it. Lastly, it's threads like this or the Viera threads or what not that got Male Miqotes and Fem Roes/Highlanders in the game in the first place. So its a bit rich to dismiss these boards as being insignificant. What you also fail to understand is that a silent majority doesnt inherently mean they disagree with the vocal minority (nor are in favor of it). Theyre just silent. However, If you could poll most players, most would probably side along the idea of "Yeah, Id be cool with those in the game." Also, as a point, the 'whales' tend to be also pretty vocal, so this vocal minority is probably people who are willing to dish out money for SE.

[Brynne]

I think Final Fantasy games tend to appeal to players who feel strongly about the aesthetics of their game, and so cosmetic things like race choices actually do matter quite a bit. That's why this topic is so hotly debated. Not everyone has the same aesthetic preference, so there's going to be differences of opinion, but in general more options are a good thing. The Hrothgar were absolutely needed as there was no real beastlike race option, and even though I like the Viera and I'm happy we're getting them, I have a feeling that SE might've been better off going with female Hrothgar instead.

I hope they add the other genders later, because to me it feels like there's a huge dissonance without them.

[Eoko]

I will agree that some people do not understand the work load it takes to model armors. But since I was quoted, I will mention that I very much do understand the work load. I understand that every piece of gear needs to be fitting on every model, going forward and back. Why do you think the Hrothgar bodies are so akin to the Roes? Because it's going to be the Roe armor that gets adjusted, slightly, to fit them. They aren't remaking every piece. With the Viera females, I am going more Elezen bottoms, Hyur tops, and better hair than anyone in the game (please to be having those hairs). A game with this much customization and this many items has to do everything they can to make it easier on themselves. So yes, I want a beefy female, because the game and the players deserve that. But I know, 100%, that a beefy female means an entire new model, and the edits to the gear would be pretty massive. I am aware of that. And while I may want it, I would completely understand if the Hrothgals ended up being Roes with the animal heads, because I would rather have that option than no Hrothgals at all. And yes, it's more work, but it is content relevant to me.

Some players have all the jobs on 1 character. Some play a couple. I personally have 2 mains. I have never used a Fantasia on either of them, and I only change one's hair on occasion. They have specific jobs. Eoko is a White Mage, and she has Red Mage at 70 to because... glamour, mainly. She will never be another job. She is a White Mage. Pink is a Monk (and will change to Dancer because Dancer is life), and Warrior for fast queues. But his core being as a character is Monk until Dancer comes out. If I want to play anything else, or have a character idea, I make a new character. I have a Dragoon that's level 50. Another White Mage cause I wanted a drow-looking Au'ra girl, and probably a dozen other characters that are mostly all between level 20-30. And the reason for their level is collecting pretty event gear. I spend hours of my life leveling up completely pointless alts, so get them pretty clothes. To me, that is content. To most people, that is madness. So to say a race itself is not content or does not draw people in only shows it is not a reason for you.

[Eoko]

I made a character named Foo Foo, because I was going to Fantasia to a Viera male (and now I'm just going to make the most androgynous female I can until we might see them released later). I made a character because I thought "Little Bunny Foo Foo" was funny. Other people definitely had the same idea because there are a lot of brand new Foo Foos and Bunny Foofoos out there. When I saw the Hrothgar, as disappointed as I was about the genderlock, the lion faces reminded me of a Beauty and the Beast TV show from like 1987. So I now have a Roe named Vincent just wanting to be turned into a Hrothgar. And I have lots of wolf characters, so of course I'm going to make a wolf one too. That is inevitably going to be more time I spend in the game, because of these new races. And you can bet your next sub that if I could play Foo Foo as a male Viera, I would be on that character as much as my other two mains. I literally have a Lalafell named Field Mouse to see how many bunnies bop me on the head. Races add a lot to a social game like FFXIV. I barely raid, or do EXs until they die in 2 minute farms. I don't to Relic. Story is easy. I gather, and I craft. What most people might consider important content, I couldn't care less about. Content is what makes each person play and enjoy the game.

Also... North America has the highest number of active characters. Japan is not that far behind. Europe has about half as many. "Other regions don't care" isn't a good excuse. Because we make up about 2/5 of the population. Our voices matter. And as long as we are respectful, and patient, there is no reason we should ever stop asking for what we desire in this game. Not until we are outright told it isn't going to happen. I do not expect things to just happen. I expect their to be feedback, for it to be considered, and for a decision to be made. I expect to have the final date as "eventually", and not concrete. I expect that if they decide to do the other genders it will be more of a side project than this release was. I am not delusional in the amount of work it takes. But I will be following the matter closely until an actual decision is made, either way. And I will accept it, no matter the result.

[reivaxe]

It's funny you say that, because we've seen various posts through the various threads on the matter of people who have, in fact, picked up the game after the announcement of playable Viera (and were subsequently disappointed by the locking of males).
It might not be why you specifically pick up a game, but it's more than a valid reason for others.

I'm sure all 3 or w/e of them are so very disappointed that a game they paid money to play months before Viera would even been available got only what the race was shown as up to this point ...

Hmm, its more accurate to say that Content in the game keeps players busy, but if the aesthetics are limiting, content is irrelevant.

I'mma break my rule of ignoring "snip' quoters cause I find that much issue with this.

Content is key. It doesn't just keep people "busy", it gives them new and exciting ways to experience the game. It's where players get their enjoyment ... seeing how even cosmetic rewards for us Casuals who see Fashion as the "true endgame" is indeed content.

Content is legit anything added to the game that can be played, used or earned and this game is huge because it has a ton of it. Even if the only reason you sub for a month is to do a seasonal event (not for story or puzzles but because you want the glam or house items or mounts) you came back for content ...

From what I can tell of the most popular WW MMOs right now are WoW, FF and GW2. Of these the only one that constantly adds races is WoW because it's a game that can be played on a toaster. And they're losing players all over the place because people do not like the direction they're taking the game play, the Content... adding a new race isn't gonna fix that. On the other hand GW2 will never add more races and it's doing just fine.

If everyone was teh exact same player model, there would be far fewer players.

Point isn't and has never been that this game would be just as popular if we only had 1 character model, that's strew man non-sense you made up and shows why I ignore post that delete what they're quoting.

As an example, I never played the original GW cause the race aspect didnt appeal to me. Game couldve been fine, but I liked WoW for that character diversity.

Find that example funny because you don't bring up playing GW2, the sequel that adds a wonderfully diverse line up of races. Almost like more goes into sticking with an MMO ... like content.

And yeah, if people unsub over the gender thing (which some people have already) that is their choice. You can think its stupid, but if SE isnt providing the player what they want, why should the player continue paying for it.

1- I DO think it's stupid to leave the game over that (I never said that in my post but ya know, you seem to like strew maning it up so w/e). It's something you never had and seeing as it's not in the game you're playing NOW you seem to clearly find reason to play anyway.
2- People can do it, their sub wont be messed seeing as someone willing to do that prob wasn't invested in the game to begin with and would find some other reason to leave. Like how people threaten to leave because of Eureka ... Ok, sure, either you're gonna throw away everything you enjoy about this game because of that OR you're buffin, I don't care.

3- This has nothing to do with my post lmao

Lastly, it's threads like this or the Viera threads or what not that got Male Miqotes and Fem Roes/Highlanders in the game in the first place. So its a bit rich to dismiss these boards as being insignificant.

They did it because Yoshi wanted to. The situation is NOT the same here (and even when he did that he didn't seem to have a problem with the concept of no male Viera back then according to that comment of his that people ignored).

"The timing of the game launch, the races needed to have each gender counterpart for ARR. When I took over for ARR, I wanted to fill the missing gender to make those races seem complete. What is different now compared to then. After multiple expansions, the situation isn’t the same as when we released the base game. …"

When they made those genders for those races they were trying to save this game by any means at a time when it was far FAR smaller. Now they're successful af and the game is much MUCH larger.

"When we create one gear, we have to make adjustments so it fits all these different races. So when we add new races, we have to adjust how to approach this process. The development cost for making a new race is very intense because of how much work we put into the graphics of the game. We also have to make sure these things all work properly. That's why we are saying these may be the last races because of how taxing it is on the development team."

They knew there would get blow back but did it anyway cause it's the best path towards pleasing the most people.

"We did expect strong feedback on the gender lock. It was a tough decision, but we decided to do our best to meet both the player feedback and our development team’s vision. It will be very costly to add a new race or genders. So I won’t say no, but I would not like to set expectations high. "

You can say "But this worked before!" but you would be ignoring the fact that the man in charge was the one who decided to do it because he wanted to ... he's not beholden to your wishes and that man is also OK with things being the way they are now.