(Savage) People give up way too easily...

[Kaedan]

It really depends on what the party wiped on. If it was a common place to wipe, people generally aren't so quick to leave. But if it's on a part where anyone who has cleared it should know the mechanics and could have easily been avoided, that's a pretty clear sign the party isn't going to clear, so that's why they leave. There's a lot of people who were carried through content and never learn the mechanics properly, then they go into Party Finders and screw up the whole thing for everyone.

[Ilan]

snip

Yes the topic is that people give up to easy and not that people give up because they can't get the parses they want. Your facts are crap because like i said no one with a single bit of brain will go into a random PUG to do a parse run. Doesn't work and will never work. So stop blaming parsers for this.

Also AGAIN people in japan have higher clears because they are training the fights COMPLETLY different than the people here AND its more likely that new players WILL listen when someone explains. It is already a wonder IF people listen when you explain something on the NA or EU servers. When do you get that into your head? You can post numbers all you like and try to blame parsers and the people who use parsers all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you can't compare the japanese community with the NA/EU community.

[Kaedan]

Yes the topic is that people give up to easy and not that people give up because they can't get the parses they want. Your facts are crap because like i said no one with a single bit of brain will go into a random PUG to do a parse run. Doesn't work and will never work. So stop blaming parsers for this.

Also AGAIN people in japan have higher clears because they are training the fights COMPLETLY different than the people here AND its more likely that new players WILL listen when someone explains. It is already a wonder IF people listen when you explain something on the NA or EU servers. When do you get that into your head? You can post numbers all you like and try to blame parsers and the people who use parsers all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you can't compare the japanese community with the NA/EU community.

Japanese community tends to take DF and PF commitment a bit more seriously. Especially if they're joining a PF, they are very likely not to give up until 3-4 wipes (and the minimum vote abandon timer has passed).

[Ilan]

Japanese community tends to take DF and PF commitment a bit more seriously. Especially if they're joining a PF, they are very likely not to give up until 3-4 wipes (and the minimum vote abandon timer has passed).

Obviously and they probably don't demand to get carried instead of doing their part. But thats something that certain people here don't understand when they throw around with numbers that mean nothing if they don't take peoples mentality in consideration.

[Deithwen]

Obviously and they probably don't demand to get carried instead of doing their part. But thats something that certain people here don't understand when they throw around with numbers that mean nothing if they don't take peoples mentality in consideration.

I remember seeing a post about differences in Japan, and how big a difference there is between practice pf and farm pf.
In practice pf one is expected to stay for the full timer and know the strat at least to where the pf states it (say, phase 2 training etc).
In Farm pf, one is expected to know the full strat and making little to no mistakes.

In both those pf settings, if one joins and don't fill in the requirements, this can result in a black listing, even a "shared" and unofficial black listing that the JP community uses, which can results in being refused the entry of any serious pf.

[Nora_of_Mira]

Actually any dps more than the amount needed to clear is unnecessary.

out of all the things, I'm just going to comment on this one. This is only true in a perfect vacuum of a fight with 0 deaths, 0 fat fingers, and 0 goofs. in my experience with my uptime -focused static, the extra DPS gave us a buffer to save us from failing if say, a DPS goofed and died. Well, the combined tank/healing dps made up for it and we didnt hit enrage. This in turn gave us more consistent clears overall because enrage was never an issue and we could clear with multiple deaths. But I knot this is just 1 static's experience and not farm parties/PUGs, I dont go into PF with the same mindset as I do my static.

[Aramina]

This is only true in a perfect vacuum of a fight with 0 deaths, 0 fat fingers, and 0 goofs.

In addition to this, it was also a completely asinine comment because it can be applied to any role. You don't need any more mitigation than that which avoids you getting one shot. You don't need any more healing than that which keeps you at at least 1 health. While all of them are, obviously, true... they are true at that same time as being completely ridiculous things to count on.

[Sigma-Astra]

This right here.

This is why people will wait 30 minutes for a party to fill, then instantly leave after 1 wipe.

No one is playing FFXIV. they are all playing Fflogs.

If you're not concerned with how well you're doing and how much you need to improve in order to clear a Savage class fight, not to mention that you refuse to acknowledge that FFlogs is meant to help you clear the fight specifically because it can analyze and pick things up for players that would otherwise go untouched....then you have no business going into Savage.

They are the second hardest fights in XIV with Ultimate being relatively higher in terms of stress and its demand on personal skill level. No one going into a Savage party simply wants to skate by doing the bare minimum only, they want to do Savage so that they can feel good about themselves and for putting forth tons of effort, proving to themselves that they have the focus and general knowledge of their class to do something much harder than standing around Limsa for several hours dancing.

[Ilan]

I remember seeing a post about differences in Japan, and how big a difference there is between practice pf and farm pf.
In practice pf one is expected to stay for the full timer and know the strat at least to where the pf states it (say, phase 2 training etc).
In Farm pf, one is expected to know the full strat and making little to no mistakes.

In both those pf settings, if one joins and don't fill in the requirements, this can result in a black listing, even a "shared" and unofficial black listing that the JP community uses, which can results in being refused the entry of any serious pf.

And now imagine what would happen if this blacklist would be adapted in EU and NA. This Forum would be full of people who would scream and stomp on the ground because they've got blacklistet when they refused to listen to advice and just expected others to carry them.

[Aeilyi]

Hmmm... so why do people give up way too easily in Savage and leave after the first pull?
As someone who loves doing Savage content, I am just going to share my experiences with Party Finder Savage over time.

There can be many reasons why people leave on first pull. I'll give a list of possible reasons why.

1. Impatience - From what OP describes in their first post about people leaving after 1 wipe, in my experience, that actually happens more often than we would like. It even happens in content outside of Savage. For example, in alliance raids, after the first wipe, people would immediately vote abandon. Why? I don't know. But it's dumb. Maybe, they don't have the patience to stay for the entire duration of the fight for whatever reason. But why do people join fights if they don't have the time or patience for it in the first place? People are weird, the same reason why we have ice Black Mages. Maybe they did not think before they joined.

I also noticed a trend that the longer that we're in a content drought, the more likely better players who had already gotten what their stuff would leave and moved on to other content or games. This is observable in Extreme Primals as the pug quality would decrease over time. Or maybe OP just had an unlucky streak and kept running into impatient players.

2. Parsing - As interesting as it sounds, people do parse in Savage pugs, even after Echo is applied when most statics only care about Pre-Echo logs. Or maybe they're doing it for fun. Maybe they were impatient and couldn't get a log run to fill so they join a farm party instead. From observation, log runs in Party Finder takes years to fill unlike farm parties. But unfortunately, when they joined the farm party they realized the party could potentially ruin their perfect parse percentile so they leave before "things get worse." But yeah, we have people who are like that.

3. Content Drought - Almost all of the better players who had gotten their needed loot within the first 1-2 weeks after Echo is applied had already left. Now, they're completely done with the Savage content and moved onto other content or playing other games until 5.0.

I fall into this group. I used to pug Savage in Party Finder a lot because it was fun. Yes, I said fun. I am weirdly masochistic but I also like helping random people clear. But after echo got applied, I got really, really bored and burned out once I got all of the gear that I needed for my alt jobs within 1 week so I stopped doing it. My attention now shifted to Ultimates and other games until 5.0. Sorry, but I have been doing the same 4 Savage fights for the last seven months! I am tired and bored as hell. ^^; Maybe I'll go back to helping out in Party Finder once I get this Ultimate clear a few weeks later, we're so close! >_<;

So what might be happening now is most of the good players that used to Party Finder had moved on and now you're left with people that took their time with Savage, people trying out alt jobs, and maybe people trying to get echo parses for the lols.