SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[SpiritMuse]

I would have less of a problem with BLU being limited if it did actually need to be banned from dungeons because it was ridiculously overpowered and would wreck things without breaking a sweat (as was implied before release), instead of this massively UNDERpowered class that doesn't really need to be banned from dungeons because no one wants them in there anyway...

[Kalise]

you dont like the idea of them experimenting, and doing things that are to far from their normal, i think you would have left anyway. If it wasnt blue, it would be something else, because ultimately what the devs are thinking, is that the game needs more creative solutions and content than before. They feel they will gain/retain more players than they lose by adding things that are outside their current box.

I personally think that the devs should be experimenting and doing things outside the norm.

However, I feel that they should spend a few minutes to actually think about what they're doing.

Like, jobs that have quirks that make them a bit different from the copy/paste formula of every other job? Great. It could even be extended to existing jobs to give them extra side content. Just... Why did they then have to go and cop out with this "Limited Job" BS where they restrict said quirky job from participating in 80% of the games activities? (Yeah, yeah, "Muh balance!" - Which can be adjusted by making insta-kill effects immuned by enemies within a certain level of you (Such as they track for the Eureka Challenge Logs). Also "Muh theme!" - I've already covered how getting core skills from "Job Quests" can still retain BLU's learning from monsters theme)

PotD/HoH I think is a cool idea. I LOVE Roguelite games and have personally sunk 500-1000 hours in each of games like The Binding of Isaac, The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth, Enter the Gungeon and am currently clocking in the time in Nuclear Throne. But yet they manage to make the content feel kind of trash by adding in annoying amounts of high roll/low roll potential (Such as continuously getting Pomanders of Sight/Safety and Power/Steel is really strong. But getting screwed over by things like Mimics, BS traps like Landmine/Toad/Otter/Pacify and floor effects like disabled auto-heal are awful). In addition they also ended up making it give a bunch of experience at non-max level, so then it became this thing that you farm on DPS jobs because it's quick to run through the highest level you can pick from the start and get bunches of exp from rushing through in a PuG (Because of course, PuGs only go through one set of floors and so ignore mechanics like you know... Carrying Pomanders through to later floors)

Even Eureka. I think it had a lot of potential. Heck, if it simply had something to progress with outside of FATEs in order to gain crystals it would be pretty neat. Instead they designed it so that it ends up with people just doing FATE trains which then end up being pretty boring when they spend 20+ minutes farming trash mobs (Often far below max level so they're not even a threat) just to try and get a FATE to spawn... Why? Because they thought people would be just grinding mobs all over the place and having FATEs spawn incidentally (But SE, think... Why would people just be randomly grinding mobs? For the crappy chain bonus crystals? For the RNG crap light? Come on...)

Also, as far as your point about them doing what they "Feel they will gain/retain more players". I'd like to remind you that Yoshi specifically mentioned, when asked "Why implement BLU now?" that he decided to add it now because the player count through SB was not decreasing, but instead increasing.

Thus, the fact that the playerbase not decreasing was the trigger needed for him to decide to add BLU suggests that this addition was not meant to increase playercount, in fact it actually suggests that he anticipated this addition (Via this implementation no doubt) would decrease the playercount.

if they made blue not obtain its skills by defeating monsters after observing it, it wouldnt really be very much of a blue mage.

You mean like in VIII when Quistis learns her Blue Magic from just using items obtained from enemies, that she doesn't even need to be in the party when they're defeated to drop?

Or do you mean like in IX when Quina learns their Blue Magic from eating enemies?

Or do you mean like in X when Kimarhi learns his Blue Magic from using Lancet on enemies?

I mean, you could also argue that in V, they only needed to be hit by the attack to learn it (Defeating the enemy was not a necessary component)... In VI Strago only needed to see the skill be used (Again, not necessarily dependent on defeating). Tactics and Tactics A2 also only required them to be hit by the attack too.

[ChocoFeru]

We just have to be patient. It's understandable that BLU at lv50 is really limited, so wait fot the expansion to increase it's level to 60 and expect new content from it.

The idea is to bring new jobs outside the copy/paste formula from the non-limited ones, but in order to fit these jobs, SE needs to change a bit the gameplay style and the overworld.


I know peope expects everything right now to do /gpose in raid content as BLU or whatever their objectives are, but let's just be patient because limited jobs can have lot of potential.
Just imagine a Beastmaster being a true Beastmaster instead of a copy/pasted job.

[ReiMakoto]

We just have to be patient. It's understandable that BLU at lv50 is really limited, so wait fot the expansion to increase it's level to 60 and expect new content from it.

The idea is to bring new jobs outside the copy/paste formula from the non-limited ones, but in order to fit these jobs, SE needs to change a bit the gameplay style and the overworld.


I know peope expects everything right now to do /gpose in raid content as BLU or whatever their objectives are, but let's just be patient because limited jobs can have lot of potential.
Just imagine a Beastmaster being a true Beastmaster instead of a copy/pasted job.

So we've had this argument with you before if this whole nonsense of "true" classes, but what do YOU mean by true beastmaster, because like BLU it functions differently in everything

FFV: capture beasts for a 1 use attack, or uses control to select attacks that the beast you are fighting will use until the end of the fight or control wears off
FFVI: some argue Realm is a BST with control and sketch, but you can't capture, can control monsters fought though like above
FFVII: If realm counts, then the control materia counts too
FFX-2: Trainer gets a set pet for the class (almost like how it would function as a normal job in ffxiv)
FFXI: Pokemon capture pet job
FFTactics: Works like realms control, take control of a beast for 1 turn.

So how are you defining "True" BST? Because if its the pet based capture collection job like FFXI then how does that define as "True" BST. The "True" and "Identity" argument is such a stupid mess I wish people would stop bringing it up.

[Syncroniam]

Blue Mage should have always been an actual Job in XIV like the rest of them as it has always been a regular Job in other Final Fantasy instalments as well.

[Arkfrost]

I really enjoyed playing BLU when it was released. However, now that I got through masked carnival once and got a bunch of job abilities I do not touch this job again besides using Self-Destruct for a free Return spell.
Please fix this job and make it a real job, instead of this pointless minigame, since this is an MMORPG. Not a solo player game. If you want to make stuff for solo players so badly, work on FFXVI or FFXVII if FFXVI is another MMO (which I doubt).

[Damona]

Took me 12h to take it to level 50, got around... 24 spells. Had some fun doing Ifrit Normal at Level 22 and getting eruption solo after 8 tries, also tried out the masked carnival and I have to say its:

A waste of space.

They designed 49 skills for this and most of them are really interesting, even if some are kinda gamebreaking. But none of these couldnt be changed/nerfed so that BLU could fit as a normal class into the game.

I am also highly disappointed that the job only has 3 weapons as it seems? Thats not only a "limited job" thats a "disappointing job". I am really baffled that many people are amazed by this class or have lowered they standarts so much.

They should've waited with blu, even if it would've been delayed to 5.x. As it currently stands its something very niche that only a few people will enjoy. I am not saying that BLU doesnt have its fun moments, but as it currently stands: Its useless. Also the masked carnival rewards are... lets not go into it.

What I want them to do with BLU:
- Turn it into a full fledged Job, nerf/change some spells. Think of a creative rotation (if it even needs one?) and drop the limited job thing immediatley. Its just lazy and a cheap excuse do deliver content that no one will care about in a few weeks. (Which already kinda happend.)
- Give that class some weapons, even if its 50+ like with sam/rdm.
- Increase learn rate to 100% for trials/dungeons or give totems to learn primal spells after completing a fight. Its 2019 and not 2004, the game doesnt get funnier if I have to run Garuda Ex 10 times in 15 mins with friends in unsync.
- Drop masked carnival entirely, I can understand that its now part of the lore, but that doesnt make it any better. Its just a meme fest that serves no real purpose.
- Take the community feedback seriously and change your current plans with BLU.

TL;DR: BLU could've been a fun DPS, but instead it got turned into a solo content dps that nobody will care about and isnt needed at all.

[Physic]

So we've had this argument with you before if this whole nonsense of "true" classes, but what do YOU mean by true beastmaster, because like BLU it functions differently in everything

FFV: capture beasts for a 1 use attack, or uses control to select attacks that the beast you are fighting will use until the end of the fight or control wears off
FFVI: some argue Realm is a BST with control and sketch, but you can't capture, can control monsters fought though like above
FFVII: If realm counts, then the control materia counts too
FFX-2: Trainer gets a set pet for the class (almost like how it would function as a normal job in ffxiv)
FFXI: Pokemon capture pet job
FFTactics: Works like realms control, take control of a beast for 1 turn.

So how are you defining "True" BST? Because if its the pet based capture collection job like FFXI then how does that define as "True" BST. The "True" and "Identity" argument is such a stupid mess I wish people would stop bringing it up.

no matter how they choose to do it compared to other versions, if it requires capturing beasts, or studying beasts, or summoning previously captured beasts, or using whatever monsters are around, it wont fit into the skill aquisition frame work, or the concept that jobs need to have a stable predictable pool of abilities if they expect to play with other people randomly. I think for yoshida that was one of the biggest sticking points, because they dont want entering duties to have much variation.

[Physic]

Took me 12h to take it to level 50, got around... 24 spells. Had some fun doing Ifrit Normal at Level 22 and getting eruption solo after 8 tries, also tried out the masked carnival and I have to say its:

A waste of space.

They designed 49 skills for this and most of them are really interesting, even if some are kinda gamebreaking. But none of these couldnt be changed/nerfed so that BLU could fit as a normal class into the game.

I am also highly disappointed that the job only has 3 weapons as it seems? Thats not only a "limited job" thats a "disappointing job". I am really baffled that many people are amazed by this class or have lowered they standarts so much.

They should've waited with blu, even if it would've been delayed to 5.x. As it currently stands its something very niche that only a few people will enjoy. I am not saying that BLU doesnt have its fun moments, but as it currently stands: Its useless. Also the masked carnival rewards are... lets not go into it.

What I want them to do with BLU:
- Turn it into a full fledged Job, nerf/change some spells. Think of a creative rotation (if it even needs one?) and drop the limited job thing immediatley. Its just lazy and a cheap excuse do deliver content that no one will care about in a few weeks. (Which already kinda happend.)
- Give that class some weapons, even if its 50+ like with sam/rdm.
- Increase learn rate to 100% for trials/dungeons or give totems to learn primal spells after completing a fight. Its 2019 and not 2004, the game doesnt get funnier if I have to run Garuda Ex 10 times in 15 mins with friends in unsync.
- Drop masked carnival entirely, I can understand that its now part of the lore, but that doesnt make it any better. Its just a meme fest that serves no real purpose.
- Take the community feedback seriously and change your current plans with BLU.

TL;DR: BLU could've been a fun DPS, but instead it got turned into a solo content dps that nobody will care about and isnt needed at all.

yes, current blu, you dont have much to do. But its also a level 50 job currently, and he said he has other plans for content. The only thing you can do with any level 50 job currently, is level it to 50, do level 50 4 mans and coil of bahamut. As the cap goes up, you have access to more content.

So is the main beef really just the level cap being lower? Its not like there is tons of content it is unable to do, you just cant do it with duty finder. The only things i think they cant do is, main story, hoh/potd, and eureka. I am not sure why they didnt allow main story, probably because occaisionly it tells you to use duty finder. I think it should be able to everything, except maybe eureka with a party finder.

i dont really look at blu as only solo content, since i have used it in small groups many times, i just look at it as more solo friendly, and non duty finder. Blue definitely has a lot of growing to do, but we all knew that, since it was released as a level 50 job.

[Anesteria]

Physic, multiple times have legitimate solutions and arguments been brought before you, on several occasions I have wondered whether you actually understood, as more often than not it just looked like you completely ignored stuff.
We have tackled the fundamentals, and they do not stand up to scrutiny.

You're defending the indefensible on a matter that doesn't even require "limited jobs" to completely disappear. they just need to be revisioned as many others have also suggested that can be done, or could have been done differently from the start, because if they had enough resources for a job that inevitably would have required further content, unless it was doomed to stay at 50, they could have applied the same on the already existing classes.

Thus, for others who are deaf to reason and don't want to really come to the discussion table, I have only this left to say:

This tragedy...

Greater even than the Eureka calamity... must be undone.

If limited jobs must be unwritten, let them be unwritten.

Become what you must. Become the full job Blue Mage.

-Small Indie Company Inc.