Il Mheg 1/2 of two mirrored zones?

[fay2]

Are you trying to suggest that because Lyse said something about the six remaining worlds at one point, the entire lorebook theory is her idea?.

Not at all
just pointing out the msq has been training us to see her view point as flawed in some small way in scholarly matters


While we are on that tho. If those scholars are stuck on the source what real knowledge do they have of the shards?

Do you mean they're using Othardian resources already in the game? Then I'd be more inclined to think they dropped their Othardian designs into this First-shard town. It would mean Ahm Areng is the less-dev-time second zone using those models.

Yup and you can get 2 zones for the time of close to one.

"Hells Sea"? Where are you even getting that from?

And this is far off beyond anything they've suggested or talked about.

yup and it achieved what I wanted your in the later part of your comment "when we could be finally finding out about Duskwights and Hellsguard."
I'd love to know more about them too, I hope others do too

And especially, if Rak'tika is on the First? It will not be the alternate Golmore Jungle, because alternate-Dalmasca has been obliterated in the flood of Light..

Yes I remember you viewed MSQ is 4D when is 5D
Now your seeing dimension hopping as 5D when its 6D
I'd guess you see the world in 3D but miss the fact its 4D
its framed in 3D but its not 3D

Their "resource-saving" work is already clear in things like the alternate-Limsa city recycling Lominsan and Ul'dahn architecture, perhaps others, instead of giving us something entirely new. There are other ways of recycling/repurposing things besides doing "mirror zones" of every new place..

yup frees up time. a good thing.

I'm not saying mirror everything too im saying that mirrioring a few zones when taking about dimensional divergence, I think people will except.

It seems to be true with the response they got from Eulmore.

From a narrative point of view you could have two and destroy one but still have one so the resource not wasted or limited.

Really though, I don't want to see a third set of dimensions. Already the First is taking us away from learning more about the places and cultures of Hydaelyn. We'll be learning about Ronso and Mystel when we could be finally finding out about Duskwights and Hellsguard. We're still (probably) not going to Thavnair or Sharlayan.

At least the First has been a long time coming in its setup.

You could say the knowing more about 13th shard has been longer time coming with World of Darkness and voidsent.

"cultures of Hydaelyn" Ronso and Mystel are cultures of Hydaelyn as the 1st is Hydaelyn too,
one of the 14 divergences yes but its still hydaelyn.



People are viewing this 5th dimensionally but the act of moving between the shards is 6th dimensional.
Diverging from the origan at the point of sundering sure these zone equal eorzea zones.


At the moment the 1st shards in permanent day.

In contrast the source the sun is rising at 6am everywhere on hydaelyn and then sets at the same time in the afternoon, so a night and day cycle is happening.
you could call it a flat earth because of that too >_<

That alone would indicate that their rotating at different rates so the land isn't just "out of phase" and aren't just in a 5d layer with one another they are out of sync in other ways too .
but sure its easier to understand that 5D way i understand that

[MrThinker]

Cool theories here people!



I thought it was the 'crystal wave' thing that was the thing referred to as a circle around not!Eorzea, myself. Like maybe that was as far as the light-flood got before Hydfilia was able to hit 'pause'.

Well they specifically said 'area' and didn't mention the crystal wave at all, so I guess its all up to interpretation.

Uh we were in Sharlayan. The Dravanian Hinterlands, Idyllshire; that entire set of ruins is the Sharlayan capitol.

Just in case you forgot: The Eorzean Sharlayan was an offshoot colony of 'Old Sharlayan' (which makes its home in the isles of the Old World to the northwest of Aldenard) that adopted the name of 'The Motherland' when the colony itself became big enough to count as one of Eorzea's city-states. So yes we did visit Sharlayan, but we didn't visit the homeland of Alphinaud, Alisaie, Lousoix and others besides, which is what Iscah was referring to.

In contrast the source the sun is rising at 6am everywhere on hydaelyn and then sets at the same time in the afternoon, so a night and day cycle is happening.
you could call it a flat earth because of that too >_<

From the way you have worded this statement, I get the impression that you believe that Hydaelyn does not have timezones. My apologies if that is incorrect, but if that is what you think, I believe it was stated by the lore team, sometime after it was revealed that we were going to Othard, that Hydaelyn DOES INDEED have timezones and that they just didn't bother programming different day/night cycles for different zones into the game. Whether it be because it was too difficult, limitations or just not a priority I do not know/remember.

[fay2]

From the way you have worded this statement, I get the impression that you believe that Hydaelyn does not have timezones. My apologies if that is incorrect, but if that is what you think, I believe it was stated by the lore team, sometime after it was revealed that we were going to Othard, that Hydaelyn DOES INDEED have timezones and that they just didn't bother programming different day/night cycles for different zones into the game. Whether it be because it was too difficult, limitations or just not a priority I do not know/remember.

NO
I don't believe it's flat with no time zones, we've seen it from the moon and seen its a globe. so it must have time zones.

All i'm pointing out is if you limit your view point to that at 6 ET and the sun is raising everywhere on the planet you can/could come to a conclusion that its flat.

Limiting the view point of the reflections and the source to just one version of 5D then limites the perception of movement between then to on a 5D plane too.
is the same at seeing a 3D space as 2D {a bit like seeing the earth as flat}

I suspect the game engine at the moment forces a set the day cycle is there in all zones in the source even places you may not need it.

[Iscah]

Not at all
just pointing out the msq has been training us to see her view point as flawed in some small way in scholarly matters

If she was talking about something she'd worked out herself, and that hadn't been supported by any of the other characters? That would be different.

But here, she's not even "stating a scientific fact" (or theory), but making an emotional statement on a fact that has already been established.

The equivalent in a real-world war drama might be: "you want to just drop an atomic bomb on all these cities? You can't be serious!"

She doesn't need to have the first idea about nuclear physics or how the bomb is constructed. She just knows it's going to kill a lot of people.

In any case, all she's talking about is calamities, and that's definitely what Varis is proposing. It has nothing to with whether or not the worlds are being Rejoined without a trace.

While we are on that tho. If those scholars are stuck on the source what real knowledge do they have of the shards?

• What we were told by the Word of the Mother.
• Hints from what the Ascians have said.
• Whatever information Urianger got from Elidibus and Unukalhai, plus his own research into prophecies.
• Some understanding of the Void, which may have been researched independently (eg. by studying voidgates that form naturally), and then the Scions can apply that in combination with learning that the Thirteenth is the Void.
• Sharlayan studies of the Aetherial Sea via the Antitower.

It's definitely a vague thing though.

yup and it achieved what I wanted your in the later part of your comment "when we could be finally finding out about Duskwights and Hellsguard."
I'd love to know more about them too, I hope others do too

This conversation might feel a lot less roundabout if you actually stated things you wanted to say, instead of throwing out random statements and waiting for them to "achieve what you wanted". (I still have no idea what you wanted.)

Yes I remember you viewed MSQ is 4D when is 5D
Now your seeing dimension hopping as 5D when its 6D
I'd guess you see the world in 3D but miss the fact its 4D
its framed in 3D but its not 3D

Can you please explain that logic? Where are you getting the count of six dimensions from?


By my count, if we are dealing with one plane of reality (no shards) then we have four dimensions: XYZ for space and T for time. This is a standard scientific concept, spacetime.

Moving beyond that model, we first need to stop and define "dimensions", because there are two ways people might use that word when interdimensional travel is involved.

People might call each of the shards "an alternate dimension" in a general sense, but that's not scientifically accurate, because each one needs its own THREE dimensions to represent its own physical space, and possibly an extra one to track its own time.

So either we have the non-scientific "one world per dimension" phrasing, or we're working with at least seven dimensions just to represent the Source and First - XYZ and ABC for their physical worlds, T for a shared flow of time. The ability to shift between dimensions may be an eighth.

(Or for the entire fourteen-reflections system, a total of 42 physical dimensions plus Time and possibly Shifting.)

Alternately both use different "layers" of the XYZ dimensions somehow, and then we just have two extra elements Time and Shifting? And the original sundering of the shards put them untraversably far apart in dimension S while remaining "stacked" on the same physical XYZ planes. Traveling between shards means moving through dimension S.

So... five simplified dimensions, fourteen non-mathematical "dimensions" that might be better termed reflections or alternate realities, or fourty-four (and dwindling). Add 13 to any of those numbers if the shards have a separate flow of time.

Those are my best interpretations of the number of dimensions in play.

How are you working out six?

"cultures of Hydaelyn" Ronso and Mystel are cultures of Hydaelyn as the 1st is Hydaelyn too,
one of the 14 divergences yes but its still hydaelyn.

Divergences mean that they're not the same culture any more - certainly far apart enough that they didn't give themselves the same names.

Elves exist on the First, but Duskwights are a culture that have come out of specific events on the Source - as far as we can trace: Amdapor and the War of the Magi, the Calamitous flood of the Fifth Umbral Era, driven underground into Gelmorra and the eventual split with Wildwood Elezen. Those events have shaped their culture, and it's unlikely that they have happened on the First.

I want to understand the culture that my Duskwight alt character is coming from, and elves on the First are not going to demonstrate that.

At the moment the 1st shards in permanent day.

In contrast the source the sun is rising at 6am everywhere on hydaelyn and then sets at the same time in the afternoon, so a night and day cycle is happening.
you could call it a flat earth because of that too >_<

That alone would indicate that their rotating at different rates so the land isn't just "out of phase" and aren't just in a 5d layer with one another they are out of sync in other ways too .
but sure its easier to understand that 5D way i understand that

As MrThinker covered, the "same time zones everywhere" seems to be for the sake of gameplay convenience. We've seen a few times that Hydaelyn is an Earth-like planet - it can be seen in the background of a scene at the end of 3.0 with Elidibus and the Warrior of Darkness on the Moon, and also in the background of King Thordan's battle. It's mentioned in the astrologian quests as well.

And the "permanent day" on the First doesn't seem to be a result of stopped rotation or time dilation, but a direct effect of the Flood of Light causing the land to be lit up regardless of whether it's day or night.

I believe it was stated by the lore team, sometime after it was revealed that we were going to Othard, that Hydaelyn DOES INDEED have timezones and that they just didn't bother programming different day/night cycles for different zones into the game. Whether it be because it was too difficult, limitations or just not a priority I do not know/remember.

It would be for the sake of gameplay, I think - it would be pretty confusing if we had to keep recalculating the time every time we teleported to a different location!

Imagine how that would go with gathering nodes - you don't just need to remember to go to East Shroud at "1:00 ET" but keep in mind that right now you're in Thanalan which is a one-hour time difference, so you'll have to go when the clock says 12:00... but then you need to go to Limsa which is now a three-hour difference, so 10:00. It would be a nightmare.


Time zones would also create more rigidity for their world map (a good or bad thing, depending on your perspective) because it would tell us exactly where on the globe each location is. If we're running on Limsa Standard Time and Kugane is LST+12, we know it's exactly halfway around the world from there.

Uh we were in Sharlayan Dravanian Hinterlands Idyllshire that entire set of ruins is the Sharlayan capitol.

As MrThinker correctly pointed out, I was talking about Old Sharlayan, northwest across the sea from Eorzea - which gets touched on a lot, but we've never been to the actual place or seen what it's culture is like.

Idyllshire used to be a Sharlayan colony, but it isn't any more. (It was never the capitol, only ever a secondary settlement.)

Limiting the view point of the reflections and the source to just one version of 5D then limites the perception of movement between then to on a 5D plane too.
is the same at seeing a 3D space as 2D {a bit like seeing the earth as flat}

You're conflating two very different versions of "flat" here.

A "flat earth" still exists in three dimensions - that 3D existence simply doesn't involve a spherical planet. The ground might be described as an infinite plane, but 3D objects are placed on it. Things still have height, width and length.


You may be thinking of Flatland.



Edit to add: can you also please clarify what you're meaning by "versions of 5D" and what you consider "movement on a 5D plane" to involve. Where does movement in the fifth dimension take us? And what about the sixth?

[Nalien]

There it is, we can finally put a nail in this discussion. The new zones are all on the First, exactly as we were told and expected.

Shadowbringer site was updated, time to mine it for info.

Based on descriptions they all line up with what we expected, too;
Il Mheg is in the mountains, so Coerthas.
Amh Araeng is in the southern desert, so Thanalan.
Kholusia is an island, so La Noscea.
Lakeland is straight up Mor Dhona, even a nice nod with "Elves were the original inhabitants" to Eorzean lore.
Rak'tika was obviously always the Twelveswood.

A bit of a shame actually, I was kind of hoping they'd do more with the whole 1,000s of years difference in history. Could have shifted them around a bit at least, but I guess that just creates needless confusion.

[KageTokage]

So...

Rak'tika = The Black Shroud

Am Araeng = Thanalan

Kholusia = La Noscea

Il Mheg = Dravania

Lakeland = Mor Dhona


I wager the last zone is going to be somewhere out in the light-scoured wastes.

[Bright-Flower]

So...

Rak'tika = The Black Shroud

Am Araeng = Thanalan

Kholusia = La Noscea

Il Mheg = Dravania

Lakeland = Mor Dhona


I wager the last zone is going to be somewhere out in the light-scoured wastes.

Assuming there is a sixth one.

[ObsidianFire]

There has always been a sixth zone and they never outright come and say what it is before the game launches.

[Bright-Flower]

There has always been a sixth zone and they never outright come and say what it is before the game launches.

We knew all six of the SB zones for sure, I didn't follow stuff like this pre HW so idk about Azys Lla.

Granted, it wasn't until the video showcasing all zones, I think the SB site just said 'Gyr Abania' instead of detailing the three zones. but they showed all six in a trailer pre SB launch.

There could be another one, but keep in mind that HW and SB having six zones isn't a 100% guarantee that ShB will too.

[Zohar_Lahar]

We knew all six of the SB zones for sure, I didn't follow stuff like this pre HW so idk about Azys Lla.

Granted, it wasn't until the video showcasing all zones, I think the SB site just said 'Gyr Abania' instead of detailing the three zones. but they showed all six in a trailer pre SB launch.

There could be another one, but keep in mind that HW and SB having six zones isn't a 100% guarantee that ShB will too.

They were relatively secretive about Azys lla. Some brief footage was seen in trailers, but its role and name was kept obscure. Even the 3.0 Patch Notes kept the name of the zone hidden.

By contrast, we all knew Stormblood would take us to Ala Mhigo itself, so not much reason to hide the Lochs.