Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Thefates]

No, people these days are becoming more confused because of that kind of propaganda.



Yeah, that tends to be the pattern. Very often the loudest people tend to be the craziest.





You're welcome to your opinions, but you're objectively incorrect.



Not to as much as you think. We're basically paying SE rent. That doesn't mean we get to demand extra utilities.

I'd just like to point out that this community is particularly hypocritical. While blue mage is a great example of that, I'd actually like to point out Yotsuyu. Every last one of you who is demanding that no playable race be genderlocked does so screaming either "we want it," "gender equality," or something along those lines. However, when faced with a character who was abused and literally sex-trafficked in her own nation, where that was legal, all anyone seems to care to say is, "Sucks for her."

I'm sorry, but I do not find it possible to take most people who play this game very seriously at all.

Are you asking people to feel as much empathy for a virtual character as they feel desire for something completely unrelated? Why?

[Nalfein]

Someone explain to me how the part about Yotsuyu is related to genderlock.. I don't get it at all.

[Kelryth]

Me and my loyal steed, Kirito

[BillyKaplan]

snip

Posts like that really make you feel like we've stumbled down the

Rabbit hole

[Sunglasses]

[Anselmet]

I'd just like to point out that this community is particularly hypocritical. While blue mage is a great example of that, I'd actually like to point out Yotsuyu. Every last one of you who is demanding that no playable race be genderlocked does so screaming either "we want it," "gender equality," or something along those lines. However, when faced with a character who was abused and literally sex-trafficked in her own nation, where that was legal, all anyone seems to care to say is, "Sucks for her."

I'm sorry, but I do not find it possible to take most people who play this game very seriously at all.

Listen, I don't care for the sexist angel that people try to use when arguing for male vieras because in my opinion that is just pushing it but equating story elements to gender locks is just asinine. Yotsuyu's sex trafficking isn't shown in a positive light and is no way shape or form promoting rape etc. Just because people might be pushing feminism does not mean all of a sudden they cannot enjoy a narritive. Nor does it mean that they suddenly have to demand rape and anti-women plots from games, books, and tv etc. That is a really weak argument and does nothing in your argument against male vieras. We get it, you hate feminism but that does not mean everyone here is fighting for that agenda just bc they want male vieras. Nor does anyone wanting a weak, smaller, or slight male viera equate to yaaaaas queen, lets eviscerate that toxic masculinity with our feminized male vieras.

[Ceallach]

Seriously if you are still living 20 years ago mentally and you are here to bash on ppl who want male viera (quote: I'm sorry, but I do not find it possible to take most people who play this game very seriously at all), just leave the thread

Listen, I don't care for the sexist angel that people try to use when arguing for male vieras because in my opinion that is just pushing it but equating story elements to gender locks is just asinine. Yotsuyu's sex trafficking isn't shown in a positive light and is no way shape or form promoting rape etc. Just because people might be pushing feminism does not mean all of a sudden they cannot enjoy a narritive. Nor does it mean that they suddenly have to demand rape and anti-women plots from games, books, and tv etc. That is a really weak argument and does nothing in your argument against male vieras. We get it, you hate feminism but that does not mean everyone here is fighting for that agenda just bc they want male vieras. Nor does anyone wanting a weak, smaller, or slight male viera equate to yaaaaas queen, lets eviscerate that toxic masculinity with our feminized male vieras.

If male Viera and/or female Hrothgar being playable works from a lore perspective regardless of the players on this thread screaming about it, I don't mind. My original point was not, "These should never be playable and you're all wasting your time." It was, "Worldbuilding has to come before real life gender politics."

The problem is not that people want things, it's why they want them. You think my argument is weak, but if people really wanted gender equality (e.g., the most cited reason for wanting male Viera and female Hrothgar to be playable), then perhaps there should have been more empathy for Yotsuyu, more anger for Hien for being rather wishy-washy about the subject, and more outrage over the Mithra and Galka in FINAL FANTASY XI, which was wildly successful in spite of having genderlocked playable races.

The fact of the matter is that this is not your game. You're not a developer. You have no real power. None of us do. We pay SE rent to enjoy a world they created, and they can cancel anyone's services at any time for any reason. Perhaps if people were more thankful for the chance to enjoy such a creation, however flawed it may be (after all, it was made by humans, so flaws are inevitable), there would be less idiocy from the community as a whole. But instead of gratitude, people demand their way no matter what, forgetting that Japan has very strict laws against transgender people and still follows traditional gender roles. And lastly, feminism is something that each person seems to have a different definition for, considering some try for the actual ideal, some drag it through the mud and call the result "feminism," and some don't even really know what it is or is supposed to be.

In short, all I really see is players bullying the devs in order to get their way, and the reasoning behind it is weak for me. I've seen several posts ask for positivity, and I'm for that. If players want to ask for something, fine, just be civil about it. I'm not even really trying to be cruel here. I can show you cruel if you prefer. I just think there are better reasons and better ways to ask for things.

[Xebric]

I understand the "Equal rights" flag is popular to wave lately, but can we stay on topic and keep the focus on inclusion / exclusion of male Viera / female Hrothgar? Political issues may sway one's opinion about the exclusion of these two but the political issues should be discussed elsewhere since it's off-topic in all honesty. I have no idea why sex-trafficking even got brought into it since that's a topic about what's in the story and what would be considered "appropriate" for a game rather than a conversation about including content that fans love and want (or hate and don't want). They're completely unrelated.

[Ceallach]

I understand the "Equal rights" flag is popular to wave lately, but can we stay on topic and keep the focus on inclusion / exclusion of male Viera / female Hrothgar? Political issues may sway one's opinion about the exclusion of these two but the political issues should be discussed elsewhere since it's off-topic in all honesty. I have no idea why sex-trafficking even got brought into it since that's a topic about what's in the story and what would be considered "appropriate" for a game rather than a conversation about including content that fans love and want (or hate and don't want). They're completely unrelated.

Well, like I said, I don't really care either way, as long as it's for lore reasons.

To explain, I brought up Yotsuyu and the lack of empathy from players for her because in my opinion it reveals that the players don't really care about any type of sex or gender issue unless it's already something that's personal for them. Genderlock a race you can't play as, such as the Ananta, and nobody bats an eye. But genderlock playable races, and suddenly it's extremely personal and vilified because people can't see past real life gender politics in favor of understanding that this game does not depict real life. It's a game. It's not even supposed to be that big a deal whether we can play as men or women. Heck, in the entire Legend of Zelda series, how often do the Gerudo complain about Ganondorf being their king? What if we met a Gerudo king that wasn't Ganondorf? It just seems like a giant double standard to me, and people need to realize that people with all kinds of political views play this game, and to use real life politics to insist on one's own way being implemented in a game is what's truly asinine.

[Halivel]

[Emmanellain]

(to avoid social issues and arguments lets just keep the tone positive and continue the exchange of ideas and feedback)

I've seen this being passed around in the JP forums, and I personally find it a very good visual representation, it has its feet in both camps and could be widely customized.


Scource
What do everyone think?