Dispensers of fiery explosions, light me up... with your ideas for BLM in 5.0

[Kalise]

what about next expansion?...

Ultima II

[DarkZeroUnit]

i talked about how we could get a non LB of Metor called comet and since our lvl 3 LB has a pot of over 6000 comet could do 2500 and have a decaying Aoe thats better than fouls as in %5 less damage upto 5 targets then %10 of 6 or more to 10

so next expansion we go on a quest to get more powerful fire blizz and thunder spells starting with a mega line and as we progress to 80 we get stronger spells as in a new flare and foul that replaces our old ones

what do you all think of a rewards system where the longer we keep up eco more powerful stuff

[Dualgunner]

2500 potency?! You want one of your spells to be a (relative) little under half of LB3? What's the cost to using this monster of a spell, will you be the equivalent of Vegeta charging Final Flash every cast?

I'm overreacting a bit intentionally (its meant in good humor) because the suggested potency number gave me a good chuckle.

[DarkZeroUnit]

2500 potency?! You want one of your spells to be a (relative) little under half of LB3? What's the cost to using this monster of a spell, will you be the equivalent of Vegeta charging Final Flash every cast?

I'm overreacting a bit intentionally (its meant in good humor) because the suggested potency number gave me a good chuckle.

well if its the same as lb3 that be silly its does less than half of it has aoe decay while metor doesnt and i thought itd be an alternative to Ultima cuz i figure thats end of life FF14 where they gives it to us and we can live out our days melting faces with it

[Dualgunner]

Half of an lb3 isn't that much better as far as singular spells go. And the dropoff isn't really the problem when your suggestion is a spell that on its own does almost as much as 5 fire 4s under af3.

There would need to be significant cost to it. Like, a really significant cost, otherwise you've invalidated flare and to some extent foul lol

[Seraphyel]

I mean what's the problem to make it part of a 60s Enochian "rotation"? At 30s you cast Foul at 60s you cast Ultima (potency 850-1000), rinse and repeat.

[Kalise]

I mean what's the problem to make it part of a 60s Enochian "rotation"? At 30s you cast Foul at 60s you cast Ultima (potency 850-1000), rinse and repeat.

Since, at that point, you may as well just buff Foul's potency to 750-825 and call it a day. It would equal out to the same damage output per 60 second window and if mechanically Ultima is functioning identically to Foul even so far as to be in the same position in your rotation there's little reason to go through the motions of adding in a new spell with new animations for essentially Foul II.

[Seraphyel]

Since, at that point, you may as well just buff Foul's potency to 750-825 and call it a day. It would equal out to the same damage output per 60 second window and if mechanically Ultima is functioning identically to Foul even so far as to be in the same position in your rotation there's little reason to go through the motions of adding in a new spell with new animations for essentially Foul II.

I mean there are three options:

1. Make Ultima the upgraded version of Flare

2. Make Ultima the upgraded version of Foul

3. Make Ultima an entirely new spell with unique effects in BLM's repertoire

To make it part of Enochian it would be indeed just "Foul II" but would that be bad? What ways of introducing Ultima are there for option 3?

[Kalise]

To make it part of Enochian it would be indeed just "Foul II" but would that be bad?

It depends on your perspective.

Personally, I feel that if a new spell is being added, especially one as iconic as Ultima, it should bring something new to the gameplay of BLM as opposed to being just a potency upgrade to an existing skill. Like, I'm never excited about getting a new level of Stone on WHM because despite its new animation, it's still just Stone plus a bit of potency.

I don't want to get that feeling from Ultima where it's literally just Foul, just with more potency.

What ways of introducing Ultima are there for option 3?

Creating a new resource is one option. Just like how Polyglot was created for Foul, have something new to build up for an Ultima spell. So it changes your gameplay by having you work around this new resource and how the cast of Ultima then fits into your rotation (Where replacing Foul just means that whenever you'd Foul now, you'd just cast Ultima)

An example would be something like making Astral Hearts and Penumbral Hearts be a thing generated from a specific Fire/Lightning spell respectively. With Ultima then costing 3 Umbral Hearts, 3 Astral Hearts and 3 Penumbral Hearts (Also then meaning you would need to regain those Umbral Hearts to do your next Astral Fire phase at the normal 313 ratio or would instead just skip the refreshing of them and do a weaker 3-4 Fire IV's and then swapping).

Another example could be something that stacks up whenever you generate a new Astral/Umbral stack (So 3 per swap between AF/UI) and once you get enough stacks you can cast Ultima.

Maybe an "Enhanced Polyglot" that requires you to spend X time in both Astral Fire and Umbral Ice phases with Enochian active in order to activate, potentially making it a DPS gain to spend more than 2 GCD's in UI.

There's plenty of possibilities that can make a new massively powerful spell an interesting addition to BLM's kit without just pasting it on top of Foul.

[Zerathor]

You're literally never going to beat a SMN's tDPS regardless in a BLM comp, simply because of how much contribution you feed it via the AF phase per rotation. Technically, siphoning a bit from the AF phase for increased flexibility and non-AF damage would reduce your dependence on them for composition optimization.

That said, an equally skilled BLM can already hold its own as a competitor for a single Caster slot. When the fight requires little downtime, they often exceed it in tDPS (since, without the BLM there, the SMN isn't taking a 10% rDPS bonus check from the BLM's every other AF phase).

*tDPS = pDPS plus rDPS given, minus rDPS received.

You don't need a smn unless you're trying to pad your personal damage. As it stands right now, with only one caster in a party, blm is now competitive for tDPS with smn. Barely. Being that smn still has a raise and full mobility, it shouldn't even be this close but that's whatever. The point is if blm total potential decreases just a little in favor of making the job easier for people that don't play it often, it'll just go back to being a sub par choice to a smn in every aspect.

We're actually seeing blm in some speed kill comps again. Let's not lose this. Lowering the dps potential of the job to make it less unforgiving and maybe more mobile will just make it a worse smn that can't raise people.