SMN 5.0 Wishlist

[Akimitsu]

Personally I think it’s time to get rid of the egi’s and fully commit to the Demi-Primal route.

Going the demi primal route would be a better option indeed, but no need to remove the egis entirely. Having played PVP mostly as SMN I found that although it's terrible as it is, it's actually close to the model of what SMN should be like in PVE. The SMN doesn't need to be accompanied by an egi all the time, it just keeps working the same as it is, and once you have used your aetherflows you summon a demi primal of your choice for a 15 sec burst phase, each of them having various effects for various purposes (single target, aoe, enfeeble, etc), and after summoning it you gain access to summoning demi Bahamut for a stronger burst. So yeah basically change trance to summoning a demi primal, the rest of the time the SMN is by himself. As for egis, I would find it funny to tie it to a failed summoning, like bunnies are to ninjas, if you failed your rotation or idk what, instead of summoning a demi primal, the egi is summoned instead for a weaker burst. Although, I might regret saying that if the SMN rotation becomes so strict that failing to summon a demi primal results in a massive dps loss... Egis could also be used for victory and battle poses. I mean, there's nothing else to remodel in the possible gameplay change, so nothing is lost.

[Shurrikhan]

Well I think people need to remember we are playing FFXIV and that means we have to play with it's combat system. First, 4.0 showed that big summons don't work so well because it blocks the view of other player; reason we have small egi. Second, we are required to move and dodge to make combat challenging; reason a lot of SMN damage is cast time Ruin. Third, the game has to support both keyboard and controller which is why Egi's are normally on auto because controller suffer from a real case of skill bloating.

I generally agree, but, a few counter-points:
1. That doesn't wholly have to be the case, however. Demi-Bahamut carries even more issues of design execution than the already notorious egis, namely that it cannot be placed, and must therefore stand atop its SMN, who in turn is often stacked atop the group. There's no reason design would have to be that poor.
2. That's neither a unique nor significant issue, nor at all relevant to SMN being summon-based or not.
3. Controller in many ways suffers less from button-bloat than PC, due to the sheer number of comfortably accessible keys through its greater number of what amount to mod keys. What it suffers from is "players will be able to organize it on their own" laissez-faire design, as a set of keys of adjacent purpose or access of, say, 5 or 9 buttons is painfully awkward to accomodate, where it is of little consequence on PC, who can create buttonflows in parts of sizes more or less than 4/8 keys at a time.

On the whole, even in the parameters of XIV exactly as it is now, there's no reason SMN can't be more traditionally Summoner-like in its aesthetic and/or gameplay.

[Sylvain]

On the idea of giving us Demi's over Egi's:

Aetherflow reworked:
* Each DWT used turns 1 Aetherflow slot to become a Primal Aspected Aetherflow
* Demi-Ifrit can only be used with at least 1 Primal Aetherflow
* Demi-Titan can only be used with at least 2 Primal Aetherflow
* Demi-Garuda can only be used with 3 Primal Aetherflow
* Summoning a Demi while at 3 Primal Aetherflow causes Aetherflow to become Dreadwyrm Aether
* Demi-Bahamut consumes Dreadwyrm Aether and resets Aetherflow back to its normal state

Rouse/DWT
* Rouse's is removed and is instead having its effect merged into Dreadwyrm Trance
* If a Demi is active while in DWT Ruin is replaced by Burning Strike/Rock Buster/Wind Blade/Wyrmwave which is functionally the same but has higher potency

Tri-Disaster
* Ruination debuff now instead decreases the targets Magical Resistance by 10%

Demi-Ifrit:
* Using DWT replaces his auto attacks with Incinerate, causing high damage in a cone in front of him.
* Casting Tri-Bind causes him to use Eruption on the target.
* Upon casting Ruin IV he will cast a Radiant Plume on the target.
* Enkindle causes him to use Hellfire dealing massive AoE damage.

Demi-Titan
* Using DWT replaces his auto attacks with Landslide which is a line AoE attack (No knockback though).
* Casting Tri-Bind causes him to use Weight of the Land on the target.
* Upon casting Ruin IV he will use Mountain Buster on the target.
* Enkindle causes him to use Earthen Fury dealing massive AoE damage.

Demi-Garuda:
* Using DWT replaces her auto attack with Friction which deals damage to the target and enemies around them.
* Casting Tri-Bind causes her to use Great Tornado on the target.
* Upon casting Ruin IV she will use Slipstream on the target, which is a line AoE skill that also stuns targets hit.
* Enkindle causes her to use Aerial Blast which deals massive AoE damage and also sends out a group of Razor Plumes which fly into enemies hit by Aerial Blast and explode dealing additional damage.

Sounds a bit like the BRD song system.


I would personally remove AetherFlux from the summoner. They just add Nothing to the job, they could Simply make Fester and Painflare on a shared CD of 15-20s and it would achieve the same result (the only main difference would be the unability to quickly enter trance on pull)

With a short enough cd perhaps that kind of egi rotation could work quite well.

Anyway, I raelly hope they'll continue with the Demi path (surely, it only received positive feedback (beside the clunkiness of pet AI aspect))

[Grimoire-M]

-snip-

I disagree with going ahead on the Demi-Primal route because of that clunkiness. They need to resolve that first via tweaks to Bahamut before implementing it onto the Egi. The only thing that makes sense to me in regards to Bahamut's behaviour is the way he attacks with Wyrmwave, and even that has notable issues (making it proc off of oGCDs in general makes the rotation an utter mess, for example). Shurrikan touches on the fact that he tries to stay on you, but biggest issue with that is Akh Morn isn't prioritized over that movement. Regardless, the fact of the matter is Turrets and Fairies operate a whole lot better. Let Egi be horrible until SE figures out an alternative that isn't a giant mess.

With that in mind, Aetherflow is the reason to play the class at all atm. We're the only dps class with a resource that actually gets flexed around based on the situation. Taking that away for what would be an even bigger rush job than Bahamut is not a good idea. Part of the reason I advocate for returning to HW is because doing so would consolidate everything SE has given to us so far into a standard 15-20s window every minute, leaving room for SE to find other ways to make our filler rotation interesting in a way that doesn't come off as forced, like the Aetherflow lockouts are. That filler can be done by making the current egi work better, or applying a global egi rework, but either way it opens up room for that to be possible without discarding the other aspects of SMN that make it good.

I'd rather stick with the current warlock clone with some thought put into improving what's there than risk another BLU fiasco or pushing more on BRD's niche for no good reason.

[Memnock530]

I am about to hit lvl 60 , so i can't really talk about end game , but what i would like is 1 simple thing and that is to have the Egi stick to any target that has my dots on it , instead of entering stand by mode whenever it kills a mob.

EDIT: Forgot to mention , it would be nice to make the pets look like mini versions of the actual primals , would be nice if Garuda and Titan and ifrit looked exactly like their big counterparts , just tiny.

[Alacer]

I would like to see more egi’s that the summoner is able to call if we are going to continue this route. Otherwise, I would love to see the primal route definitely be pushed further as this is in keeping with tradition of what the summoner class was. I personally don’t mind the egis, but would prefer them to be augmentation aspects. Contagion and Flame shield are great abilities, and I feel that other egis could provide different aspects in the game. That way the summoner still feels like a summoner and has more options, but rather than being a pet with questionable AI, they work almost like a buff and provide additional fire the same way Bahamut does whenever an action is performed. With a special ability that can be utilized, and enkindle to launch a primal attack at the enemy. One of the greatest parts of being a summoner is our mobility and having to worry about the egi sometimes is a distraction rather than an asset. I guess I want egis to be almost like minions with benefits.

[Miminming]

Do something with physick please?
Right now even drain is far more better...

[JunseiKei]

I've been messing around with SMN on and off since Demi-Bahamut came to the game. I can't say I've been thrilled with SMN being a heavy DoT class AND a pet class, but compared to ARR and HW, I like SB's iteration better. I still have some gripes, though:

• Merge Miasma III and Bio III into one DoT that lasts as long with the same combined potency (so 30second duration of 100 potency ticks);

• For Tri-Disaster, have the DoT, Ruination debuff, and current Contagion's effect (increase magic damage by 10% for 15seconds);

• Give a reason to pick whatever EGI you have, each with desirable applications. FFXIV runs on DPS is king - all 3 EGIs should have tools that feed into that design.
- Remove the pusback or change it to a heavy;
- Increase Garuda's potencies or add a DoT to Contagion;
- Change Titan-EGI to be a mitigation-based summon and remove enmities, since the SMN gains all enmity anyway once Demi-Bahamut is summoned, rendering the tank aspect of this summon completely worthless once you gain the ability to summon Demi-Bahamut;

• Move Shadow Flare to a DoT or something other than a click-to-place ability. Macros are unresponsive and it sucks when you accidentally click a player or the ability just doesn't place because of latency. Don't want to remove it because the slow debuff is very handy in content where enemies are not immune to the effect;

• Give SMN's EGIs the SCH's fairy treatment and have EGIs perform an action IMMEDIATELY. This has been my favorite QoL change done to ACN/SCH/SMN, but why it was limited to SCH and not ARC as a whole remains a mystery to me;

• Move Demi-Bahamut's appearance to be near the SMN, but not ON TOP, given the summon can't be damaged, but still obstructs view;

• Remove Physick as a spell on SMN and turn it into a trait; every time Aetherflow is used, or a stack is used, the EGI gets a heal or regen. This could also replace Sustain or

• Put Sustain as an oGCD.

[Barghest1210]

Thought it'd be cool if new SMN spells called in Ramuh egi or Levi egi for a single use rather then trying to justify new pets but also allow summoners to feel like summoners and actually summon more primals.

[Daralii]

A very minor thing, but I'd personally like it if they consolidated Enkindle with Enkindle Bahamut. I have no idea why those are separate actions in the first place.