Dispensers of fiery explosions, light me up... with your ideas for BLM in 5.0

[Archwizard]

I think it also depends on what Yoshi would mean by "new abilities".

It could, for instance, mean what we all think, that BLM is getting new spells and a fundamentally new rotation in 5.0.
It could also mean in a broad sense that old abilities are being completely reprogrammed so that they're functionally entirely different and new, like Scathe and the II spells. It could mean in a very specific sense that "abilities" like role actions and cooldowns -- those affected by Amnesia status -- are getting reworked, which would affect BLM most particularly given their personal lack of utility or lack of use for ones like Lucid Dreaming and Convert.
And this is all just assuming that the interview is real (still haven't seen anything about it outside this thread) and accurately quoted and translated, particularly given recent revelations that Yoshi P was misquoted in some interviews during the lead-up to Dancer's announcement.

No use panicking about it until May. Let's focus on feedback until we get a clearer idea.

[Kalise]

I think it also depends on what Yoshi would mean by "new abilities".

It could, for instance, mean what we all think, that BLM is getting new spells and a fundamentally new rotation in 5.0.

I don't think that.

I think we're just getting new levels of the same rotation with +10 potency.

At best, maybe we have a new skill to fill in the role of F1 as "AF Refresh".

Otherwise, I think that other new abilities might take on the form of new Lightning or Ice aspected ones that we will never care about because it doesn't fit into the Fire IV spam rotation.

[Tint]

I would like to see a new single target nuke wich uses the Polyglot, since Foul is actually an AoE skill.

[Genis_Elric]

How can do many people say BLM is a cohesive or well designed job? Don't get me wrong, I'm a BLM main and it's a ton of fun to play. The problem isn't that the job isn't good or fun, but the potential for improvement is obvious. B1, B2, FRZ, SLP, and F2 are all but worthless in all current content. Convert is terrible. It's a minimal DPS gain, especially considering the HP cost and long CD. Scathe is only useful for hitting a target before it jumps away, before it dies, or during long movement heavy mechanics. The former two are (likely) insignificant when it comes to overall DPS or clearing a fight and the latter could be avoided with proper use of CDs. My biggest disappointment with SB was that BLM got no truly new actions. Between the lines is simply aetherial manipulation but more limited, T4 is higher potency T2, Triple is better swift, and foul is flare with its own resource; nothing we didn't already have. I'm really excited that SE is taking a hard look at BLM and deciding to not stay satisfied with good when there is so much room for improvement.

Tldr; BLM is fun but it is not well designed. 5 obsolete actions, 2 in dire need of improvement, and nothing new since heavensward; it needs some extra attention.

[Orbus]

I would like to see a new single target nuke wich uses the Polyglot, since Foul is actually an AoE skill.

Well, it is, but it's also the strongest spell against single targets too.
Fire4 under astral 3 is 504, so the 600 foul isn't just a tiny amount stronger.
Plus it does full damage under umbral where your damage would normally be dumpstered.

[Archwizard]

Tldr; BLM is fun but it is not well designed. 5 obsolete actions, 2 in dire need of improvement, and nothing new since heavensward; it needs some extra attention.

You're not wrong that it has room for improvement, but for the most part the class is in better condition than many others; its worst issues primarily come down to "we're not really using all of our skills", primarily because the ones it does use are just substantially stronger than anything else in the game. Several of the skills you mentioned would be passable with quality-of-life buffs (Scathe/Freeze) to give them a use, or even just traits to outright remove them from the bar (Fire/Blizzard 2).

The people you are addressing are arguing that either the devs will ignore those already obsolete abilities in favor of adding "several new abilities" which will add to the obsolescence pool, or that they'll fundamentally 'break' the existing rotation to unnecessarily ham-fist more abilities into it.

[Genis_Elric]

So which jobs are in worse shape than BLM from a design standpoint? I don't have all my jobs at 70 but the ones I do; PLD, BRD, healers, and casters; all feel more complete when looked at individually. Sure, healers need some work as a role, but each job utilizes what is given more effectively.

[Genis_Elric]

Here's what I'd like to see if they rework BLM.

F1/B1: Trait up to F4/B4

B2: Either trait up to FRZ or get rid of it altogether.

FRZ: Either grant 1 Umbral heart and make it target instead of ground placement, or make it a ground placement dot like shadow flare.

SLP: Attach some kind of debuff upon waking or get rid of it

F2: Just get rid of it, BLM's AOE rotation is probably the most fun part of the job and it doesn't need F2

Scathe: Make it deal aspected damage of fire/ice while in AF/UI respectively and refresh the enochian timer. This might even give a reason to sharp scathe if it would get a potency boost with it.

Convert: I've got a few ideas but I'm sure they're not the best. At the very least, reduce the CD substantially.

If they do that, there'll be 4-5 open spots for new abilities without changing the current rotation. I'd like to see them use those open spots to add uses for polyglot similar to how SAM use Sen for a dot, AOE, and single target. If also like to see more uses for Umbral hearts. Both could be implemented without being obsolete, rendering other actions obsolete, or changing how BLM's rotation functions.

[Shurrikhan]

So which jobs are in worse shape than BLM from a design standpoint? I don't have all my jobs at 70 but the ones I do; PLD, BRD, healers, and casters; all feel more complete when looked at individually. Sure, healers need some work as a role, but each job utilizes what is given more effectively.

There's quite a difference between having skills we scarcely need bother putting on our bar and having skills that feel clunky, unintuitive, unnecessary, or underpowered, but are nonetheless obligatory. BLM fits the first category; MCH, for instance, fits the second.

Of course, we should fix both sets of issues, but at least the first set's gameplay tends to feel far smoother, polished, and/or cohesive than the latter set's.

[Kalise]

So which jobs are in worse shape than BLM from a design standpoint? I don't have all my jobs at 70 but the ones I do; PLD, BRD, healers, and casters; all feel more complete when looked at individually. Sure, healers need some work as a role, but each job utilizes what is given more effectively.

It depends on what you consider "Poor Design".

BLM has the most skills that it just doesn't put onto its action bar because they're useless. Also, it's "Optimization" includes further trimming down on used skills to try and create a DPS rotation less complex than WHM.

But then you have things like MCH being very RNG and ping based and being very clunky.

You have MNK having almost half of its damage in its positional bonuses.

You have Healers not wanting to use GCD heals.

You have Tanks with defensive stances they never want to use.

BLM at the very least, works. It is also one of very few jobs that has actual flexibility in stats because basically everything is near enough equal gains (So you can adjust SpS to your ping/comfort)

Objectively, its "Design" in terms of making use of its kit is pretty dire, due to how trash UI (Thus non-Fire skills) is and how much focus there is on Fire IV which trounces literally every other Fire skill in all scenarios. However, it's gameplay is pretty solid for what it does. It's not a clunky mess like MCH. It can kind of get trashed by encounter design like MNK though, but that's due to the nature of being turrety.

I'd like to see them use those open spots to add uses for polyglot similar to how SAM use Sen for a dot, AOE, and single target.

But why?

Foul is already great for ST and also an AoE.

What gameplay does a DoT provide? Given you only access Polyglot once per 30 seconds, a DoT would either replace Foul casts altogether (If it was 30s or lower duration and higher ST potency) or would be alternated with Foul (If it was over 30s duration and had higher potency).

Polyglot is limited in its usage. So there's no real point adding skills to choose what to spend it on, when Foul already does great in all situations.

Unlike SAM, which accesses its 3 different skills after using different numbers of resource generators which impacts their gameplay when the choose one of the actions (In addition, to wanting to line up the DoT and ST skill for the 50% potency boost Kenki action)