An interview with Yoshida and his thoughts on healers in 5.0

[Hustensaft]

It would seem from interviews that SE believes ranged dps are all support dps.

I'd argue it's not SE, but the players. DNC makes that quite obvious with it's labeling as physical ranged/support DPS.

There is only DPS. Which is split between melee and ranged. Each DPS has personal DPS, and may or may not have DPS support abilities. The lack of support abilities is compensated by signficantly higher personal DPS. BLM, MCH and SMN have vastly higher personal DPS then NIN/BRD (two specs with the highest support DPS - yes, NIN provides equally high support DPS as BRD, and has equally low personal DPS.).

That's why argueing with DNC vs. BRD is inherently pointless. It's not DNC vs. BRD. It's any DPS job vs. 4 DPS slots. Whatever nets the highest raiddps should be the chosen raid composition. If it happens that the personal dps of MCH, SMN, BLM and SAM is the highest raiddps, then that's also just fine.

[Grimoire-M]

I still remember the state SCH was in when SB came out. We had trouble healing most dungeons due to our reduced potency and I very much felt like a burden to my FC whenever we would do content together on the road to 70. Hell the person who taught me SCH outright quit the class and moved to AST/WHM in the aftermath of it and still hasn't come back due to how badly SCH started the 4.0 patch cycle. Which is to say nothing of the fact that they then buffed us and then OVER buffed us over the course of the expansion because they once again just fundamentally don't understand how to balance the healers in this game.

In retrospect the problem wasn't really potency, it was purely MP and low gear bias. They wanted you to cast Physick and Physick is more than workable in practice than people gave it credit for, but it doesn't 'feel' good because SCH is used to relying on their fairy. That same kneejerk response happened in HW too briefly. SE more than compensated for the MP economy issues with the Quickened Aetherflow change to make it more reliable and more efficient on top of making Adlo/Succor cost less. Had they left the numbers alone other than that and only implemented QoL changes after the fact I think SCH would have been fine. Good, sure, but at least closer than it has been to the other two healers. Though I'm happy with the Succor/ET buffs too. Indom is the big one that didn't need to happen. I swear Fey Union got a buff too but it was later than I remember it being. Probably around the same time they removed the Rouse interaction?

[RyuDragnier]

WHM vs AST/SCH isn't even a balance problem - it's a design problem.

No balance can ever fix an underlying design problem, and seemingly all we get is "balance" garbage.

A design problem with AST more than anything.

I don't know, DRK was/is in a "bad" situation as is the WHM, but tanks have a new job.
Remember all the (constructive) DRK threads during all this expansion ? SE answered to one of them (unlike us) and clearly said they needed to rework the DRK, so...
What can't we have the same thing for us : rework of WHM and a new healer job ?

WHM doesn't need the rework, AST does. Take away all moves prior to 51 and what is each healer? WHM is the burst/HoT healer. SCH is the shield healer. AST is...a wannabe WHM who becomes a wannabe SCH at 50.

This is the problem with AST at its base, it's a copy due to the Sects with no identity of its own, and incredibly hard to balance for the same reason. This is its problem and this is what needs to be fixed. Remove the Sects, give it its own identity using the cards to modify its healing capabilities or go all in with the time manipulating heals like Earthly Star. Perhaps making it able to detonate its buffs on allies for burst healing, and move it more towards an OH role like SCH.

Only then will WHM be able to shine, for WHM cannot shine right now because of AST's base setup combined with its superb utility easily making WHM replaceable.

[Lozza]

I'd argue it's not SE, but the players. DNC makes that quite obvious with it's labeling as physical ranged/support DPS.

That's why argueing with DNC vs. BRD is inherently pointless. It's not DNC vs. BRD. It's any DPS job vs. 4 DPS slots. Whatever nets the highest raiddps should be the chosen raid composition. If it happens that the personal dps of MCH, SMN, BLM and SAM is the highest raiddps, then that's also just fine.

I don't think you've really been following what's been said about this. If everyone acknowledges that dps is dps then adding another dps regardless of flavour is meaningless especially when it clearly comes at the expense of a role not getting a shiny new toy for two expansions now. The interview with Yoshida clearly indicates that SE believes that physical ranged dps, is different to magic ranged dps, is different to melee physical dps. We can deduce this because they feel they need an extra ranged physical dps to "balance the number of roles out". Thus if SE feels phys ranged dps is somehow different to other dps so much so they need to give this group of players another option we can only ask why that is the case, hence why they feel the need to balance the number of options for physical ranged when there are already 9 dps jobs competing for 4 spots.

If we view dps as dps alone (since they do all compete for the same spots on teams) it seems insane does it not that SE added yet another dps to the game rather than 4/2, 4/2, 8/4 options which would make the numbers more balanced so far as choices are concerned.

[Ahrijlaken]

They had 4 years to balance healer .... stop excuse.

DPS aren't balance neither and yet they release new DPS. Tank aren't balance neither and yet they release new tank.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

When is SE going to wake the hell up and redesign AST so it isn't a damn WHM with cards? There's more issues, but the biggest one right now is the fact that AST can do everything WHM can with additional support. You will never be able to balance this.

[Yuyuka3]

A design problem with AST more than anything.


WHM doesn't need the rework, AST does. Take away all moves prior to 51 and what is each healer? WHM is the burst/HoT healer. SCH is the shield healer. AST is...a wannabe WHM who becomes a wannabe SCH at 50.

This is the problem with AST at its base, it's a copy due to the Sects with no identity of its own, and incredibly hard to balance for the same reason. This is its problem and this is what needs to be fixed. Remove the Sects, give it its own identity using the cards to modify its healing capabilities or go all in with the time manipulating heals like Earthly Star. Perhaps making it able to detonate its buffs on allies for burst healing, and move it more towards an OH role like SCH.

Only then will WHM be able to shine, for WHM cannot shine right now because of AST's base setup combined with its superb utility easily making WHM replaceable.

THANK YOU! This post sums up all I'm trying to tell people ever since AST came out! AST is such a stupidly lazy copy-paste job of WHM with some SCH tacked on, it's outrageous seeing people trying to defend that bullshit. Makes me wonder if they ever looked at WHM at all and did any meaningful comparison of the two jobs... probably not, or it would have literally jumped right into their faces.

When is SE going to wake the hell up and redesign AST so it isn't a damn WHM with cards? There's more issues, but the biggest one right now is the fact that AST can do everything WHM can with additional support. You will never be able to balance this.

What I wish for: now, finally, after 4 years of sleeping.
What I, however, think more likely: never. Or until they get new job designers assigned to healers, which probably won't happen anytime soon, sadly...

[Ceasaria]

And yet for AST and other jobs, it's not like we have given suggestions for years capable of resolving the differents problems...
I can understand the problem with AST, but you need to understand that SCH is untouchable too because of the fairy, the crit sdlo spread, etc.
And because of that, AST noct which is poorly efficient and can't take the spot of SCH, and inevitably because of his utility will (potentially) outshine WHM and be preferable to pick over WHM.

So to sum up, WHM issues is because of AST issues which is because of SCH issues.
Resolve SCH 1st, then AST, and finally WHM.
After that, we should be able to look at the 3 and be able to balance them well.

[Ahrijlaken]

WHM doesn't need the rework, AST does.

THANK YOU! This post sums up all I'm trying to tell people ever since AST came out! AST is such a stupidly lazy copy-paste job of WHM

AST is perfect and fun healer that can adapt to his co-healer. It's not a copy of WHM ... It's a WHM 2.0 or even 3.0, it's an evolution of your boring lackfull WHM.

If you want to rework something, rework WHM.

[Sebazy]

In retrospect the problem wasn't really potency, it was purely MP and low gear bias.

I can kind of forgive SE for potency mistakes. Perhaps even missing the way the fairy would scale back again at level 70 as well.

What I can't forgive is the fact that at level 70, a SCH's best damage tool on dungeon trash was to pick a single mob and broil. Did they somehow think that AST was fun before Gravity? It's apparent that not a single designer realised or cared that the SMN changes would gut SCH's source of dungeon damage.

It's just another nail in the 'SE's job design team doesn't play healers' coffin for me.