It makes zero sense for the PLD class to have three different skills for AoE

[marquoise]

I want Flash to get upgraded to Holiest of Holy in sbr.

I love that idea. I was honestly thinking Flash really needed to go, its hardly used at all anymore. Here's hoping the promised PLD rework switches things up.

[Steelbreeze]

How far are you willing to go along this path? Let's strawman for a second here, just as an illustraton though. "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one healing spell" or "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one class, all jobs should be able to heal dps and tank with a single button that does everything!"

Yes, that's a completely ridiculous argument, but at what point between PLD having 3 aoe skills and there being one job with one button will you be satisfied? Flash and eclipse have nearly opposite applications in spite of them both being aoe. One builds threat, reduces damage taken, and does no damage. The other ONLY does damage.

I love that idea. I was honestly thinking Flash really needed to go, its hardly used at all anymore. Here's hoping the promised PLD rework switches things up.

? I use it usually about 4 times every single pull in a dungeon. When I heal for PLD tanks, they use it at least once or twice a pull. Where are you getting this "hardly used at all anymore".

[marquoise]

? I use it usually about 4 times every single pull in a dungeon. When I heal for PLD tanks, they use it at least once or twice a pull. Where are you getting this "hardly used at all anymore".

Whenever I play PLD nowadays I open with Circle of Scorn and Total Eclipse. If its a pack in a dungeon just simple tab target switching through your rotation along with CoS on cooldown is enough to keep everything on you.

If it's single target then Total Eclipse and Flash are basically useless anyway.

[Shurrikhan]

How far are you willing to go along this path? Let's strawman for a second here, just as an illustraton though. "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one healing spell" or "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one class, all jobs should be able to heal dps and tank with a single button that does everything!"

Yes, that's a completely ridiculous argument, but at what point between PLD having 3 aoe skills and there being one job with one button will you be satisfied? Flash and eclipse have nearly opposite applications in spite of them both being aoe. One builds threat, reduces damage taken, and does no damage. The other ONLY does damage.

To be fair, this is much more alike to "It makes zero sense for a Melee to have two combo-breaking low-effect ranged skills" or "It makes zero sense for a Healer to have two GCD cleanses."

I use Flash commonly for its initial enmity and the extra healer AoE GCD's worth of evaded damage and find it distinct enough that I don't find it redundant with TE, but I see where they're coming from in this regard.

[Izsha]

How far are you willing to go along this path? Let's strawman for a second here, just as an illustraton though. "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one healing spell" or "It makes zero sense for there to be more than one class, all jobs should be able to heal dps and tank with a single button that does everything!"

Yes, that's a completely ridiculous argument, but at what point between PLD having 3 aoe skills and there being one job with one button will you be satisfied? Flash and eclipse have nearly opposite applications in spite of them both being aoe. One builds threat, reduces damage taken, and does no damage. The other ONLY does damage.

Because opportunity cost. Every class has X button budget. Let's say 50 for math sake. If 5 of them are aoes, that's 10% of your actions that have little to no use for much of the game. One forenmity. One for defense. One for damage. Etc. Is that interesting gameplay? Is that fun? Would it be more fun to streamline it and just have an all in 1 like steel cyclone? It does damage. It doesn enmity. It does defense(healing). Then you take the other actions and make interesting and fun resource juggling, swapping, position changing, party assisting whatevers.

Aoes are a standard and boring part of most jobs like pld and war in particular. There is nothing engaging about flash to gather then spam a 2nd skill with the exact same CD, area of effect for damage. That's not engaging and splitting those into 2 skills doesnt ADD anything to the pld experience.

That's why your straw man falls apart. Plds 2 gcd aoes dont add anything except buttons. They arent fun. They arent interesting. So if you have 2 Boring buttons, you should makethem interesting or combine them and use the new button budget to make something interesting.

Your straw man misses the point that you get something new for every button you cull. So it isnt condensing aoes is the same as having 1 job with 1 button. Its replacing lane boring buttons with good interesting buttons. If 2 jobs were nearly identical the same argument would work. Remove the duplicate and change it into something unique and interesting.

[Lyth]

The opportunity cost isn't dictated by whether an action is AoE. It's dictated by whether it's dps efficient. Circle of Scorn and Salted Earth are dps efficient in both single target and AoE. Dark Passenger is dps efficient in AoE, and under specific conditions, can be dps efficient in single target. Decimate is dps efficient if you have two targets, and Quietus is dps efficient if you have three. Flash and Unleash are never dps efficient.

If you're talking about hotbar space, it just comes down to how many different situations an action can be useful in. That's generally why certain jobs tend to come out ahead, by virtue of having less "niche" actions and more multi-function ones.

[SunAurel]

I want Flash to get upgraded to Holiest of Holy in sbr.

YES PLEAS
That or Saints Cross (basically holy spirit as aoe)

[Windwalker]

lol complaining about pld.... have you seen DRG and SMN?

[Windwalker]

I want Flash to get upgraded to Holiest of Holy in sbr.

Yeah, would been sweet if they upgraded all the old abilities when you unlock the job would make it feel more special, feels weird to be using old gladiator skills and whatnot. I liked the upgrades of the summoner skills