Square really shot itself in the foot this time.

[TheGrimace]

Did we really need another thread about this?

And honestly, OP..what promises were broken? Players asked for Viera. They got Viera. Just not the Viera that the entitled and overhyped section of the player base wanted.

friend if you're sick of these threads popping up, you might want to stay away from the forums for a few days.

[BrokenButterfly]

Whats a better front, 300 tiny threads that disappear overnight, or 1 giant one?

Also, its easy to select a char, you have to click the star in the upper corner of the character portrait.

1) Both. Companies like this just mute the single thread and never look at it. I've seen it before. Sorry if you don't like it, but this is the way you get people to pay attention -- with both huge threads and smaller threads.

2) Once again, I'm talking about their PR moves and my concern FOR THE GAME AS A WHOLE with the evidence they've shown us here, not the races itself. The current threads up don't match that topic.

[Nihility]

friend if you're sick of these threads popping up, you might want to stay away from the forums for a few days.

Usually I shy away from complaining threads but these ones about male viera are so hyperbolic and ridiculous it's actually pretty amusing.

Male viera were apparently literally everything anyone could imagine all at the same time and even if they weren't anything close to what was imagined it's still ok because they were male viera and that alone made them perfect in every way.
Should have just called hrothgar viera with some lore that males don't have rabbit ears and problem solved

[BrokenButterfly]

Also, let's talk about lost money because of boneheaded PR moves some more!

A friend of mine and Arnys' had heard us gush about the game and about how good Square was, and so they were debating getting it, patronizing Square's other games, and telling their own friends about both. However, with Square's clear disregard for both their player base, repeating of bad mistakes they originally fixed, AND their contentness with breaking their promises, that friend now deeply mistrusts their company and not only will not patron them, but will warn their friends, too. That's less players, less Mog Station buys, and less buying of their single-player games because Square has broken their promises and is showing either a malicious unwillingness to listen and mislead players for sales (because that is exactly what saying "check the fanfest~" when asked about male Vieras did, rather than shooting people down immediately like they did with other things) or a gigantically bone-headed ignorance. Either option is not encouraging.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

while i agree with the locking gender is bad they once again screwed healer fans/players is worse in my boook

[Gemina]

(This is posted on behalf of a friend who can't register on the forums because it won't let her select a character. FIX THIS.)

What in the seven hells was Square thinking with this? There are plenty of other threads talking about how ridiculous their stupid excuses were (because they were) and how sexist this is (because it is; check out Sulnas for the proper explanation: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4914407 ).

I strongly suggest looking into the definition of sexism. Gender locking isn't sexism, nor is supporting traditionalism which gender locking does. Our current social media would have you believe otherwise, but it couldn't be more wrong. Trust me, SE didn't shoot themselves in the foot. Not even close, so I hope you don't get too disappointed when you see all the Viera and Hrothgar running around come 5.0. There's going to be tons without question because the loud voices amongst the forums represents a very small portion of the entire playerbase. Those who are happy about their decision making are also the least likely to come here and start up threads, or reply to the threads displaying their discontentment.

Square knows what people think about genderlocking. They actually got such a backlash for genderlocking that male Miqo'te were made playable! (I believe the same went for female Roes; I'm not up to date on that one, just the Miqo'te) They. KNOW. The playerbase doesn't want genderlocking. And yet they went ahead with two genderlocked races?

Indeed they do know, and they continue to let us know that they don't allow it to dictate their own vision of their game. And it is their game.

But what's worse than that. What's more idiotic, more mind-boggling, is that they did the Number 1 No No No Do Not Do thing in business: they hyped up bad press.

Square knew people wanted male Viera. People asked them CONSTANTLY since the Viera was announced about it. What about male Viera? Will there be male Viera? And their answer was to wait for the fanfest to find out. Which is obviously an implication that they WILL be there because you don't hype an event this way (with smiles and winks) to tell people what they're asking for is NOT included. That is just asking. ASKING. TO get hugely backlashed on.

No, that is player/fan speculation and nothing more. What I will agree with is that they are VERY aware of the backlash they would get once it was revealed that there would be no male Viera, which is why they withheld that information as long as they have.

I preordered Shadowbringers because I trusted Square. They made boneheaded moves, but considering XIV was entirely reworked AND they had already removed genderlocked races in this game? I had thought they would at least have the braincells to realize adding in what they REMOVED would be a stupid, idiotic, bad press, back-lash filled move.

You gambled. Simple as that. There is no disputing that when you place your chips down prior to knowing all the information there will be the possibility that you lose. But a lot of information WAS there. Just not information that supported the implementation of male Viera. In fact, just the opposite. So not only did you gamble, you did so with unfavorable odds. The "removal" of genderlocked races with the addition of female Roes and male kitties doesn't really bring things in your favor when these two races were in fact genderlocked at one point. That should let you know that if SE has shown that they have done it once, that they are VERY capable of doing it again.

[BrokenButterfly]

You gambled. Simple as that. There is no disputing that when you place your chips down prior to knowing all the information there will be the possibility that you lose.

1) Gender locking isn't sexism (though it is less choice and just worse overall for the game). Genderlocked races where the males are super buff huge male power fantasy and the females are super sexy exotic lean male sex fantasy is. It's the same way that WoW is fairly sexist even though there is no genderlocking, 'cause it follows that pattern.

2) You're right. I gambled, and I lost. The gambling in this case was my fault, and I pay for it. I accept that.

But you know what? I don't think I'm the one who lost out the most here. Yes, I threw my chips in too early, and now I have to live with having lost them. But not only will I not spend any extra money on the excess fluff I would've decked my male Viera out in... I will never gamble with Square again. I will never trust them with my chips again. And quite frankly, that lost trust is a net loss for them, especially when it ripples outwards like it is now.

I paid for my gamble this once, as did all of us who actually had faith in Square and didn't think they'd be lying to our faces by misleading us (because whatever you believe, that's what they did; asked on other things they'd just say "no", asked about Viera they said "check the fanfeest", using their own reputation to sell preorders 'cause this only got announced afterwards). But Square is the one who's going to be paying for it for far longer.

As for the rest of this thread... I'm done. I'm tired of toxic idiots missing the point, but you know, considering how many toxic people I constantly run into in-game, I really should've expected it. I'm not gonna unsub; I still love the game itself and it's fun. I won't quit over this. But I'm already seeing the ripples from my friends and their own groups of people from the absolute betrayal of the trust and good will they built up. Changing their minds about buying FFXIV. New orders of ARR/HW/SB, cut. People who'd drop money on the Mog Station, cut. And it's rippling further and further out.

1/2

[BrokenButterfly]

Square won't get ruined by this, not by a long shot. But the fact that they've broken their promise to us (that is why I gambled, btw; they promised they wouldn't do it again) and brought back the unpopular, restrictive-genderlocking? That's going to stick on XIV. And even if they fix it, like they did with the Roes and Miqo'te, that's no longer going to remove the mark it put on the game. After all, they promised they'd never do it again and then did it. What other promises are they going to break? What other good changes they made are they going to backpedal on?

That is what makes me truly upset about this. I could get over male Viera not being there. If Square had said outright that male Viera wouldn't be in it? I would've been disappointed with them and withdrawn some of my cash, but I still would have bought stuff off the Mog Station, because you know what? I think it's a stupid and restrictive decision, but they would be being honest about it, and I can respect that. But the use of their goodwill to sell preorders by refusing to tell people up front Viera weren't here? Their claims of LOOOOORE even though the game AS IT IS already breaks lore and Shadowbringers will do the same? (Hi, remember the Nier raid?)

It's the blatant lying and the betrayal of our trust that makes me truly angry. And I really wish the people who go "kek qq more entitled babies" would understand that.

2/2

[Kaedan]

No, they really didn't, OP. If they thought people quitting because of this would significantly affect their bottom line, then they would have made male Viera. The fact they didn't means it won't be a big deal at all.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There was no lie or betrayal. You are delusional. This will all blow over soon, and there will be like 3 people keeping 2 thread alive, and that's it. No large scale outrage. Even here, on SE's forum, there's only what, 20 people, 30 tops?