It makes zero sense for the PLD class to have three different skills for AoE

[Jandor]

This alone wouldn't be a problem, if they kept to themselves. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However these people see WAR in a post and IMMEDIATELY start crying about how OP OP OP OP WAR is and start derailing a thread in order to discuss how they believe WAR is so OP that the game should be called Final Warrior: A Warrior Reborn, HeavensWarrior, StormWarrior, WarriorBringers because they're the best class in the entire game.

Meh, Warriors have to take some of the blame for this to be honest.

Not you personally mind, but in general a decent chunk of WAR players have been incredibly obnoxious about their top spot. Busting in to threads about the other tanks, or even other jobs in general, to spam the place up with 'Blue DPS' 'Man mode' & 'Put on your big boy subligar and grab an axe' type rubbish.

I mean, you're not spamming tired half a decade old memes or anything, but you did come in to a thread about Paladin AoE and then end your post talking about Warrior AoE and how Warrior AoE could use some changes to make Warrior play better, and now half the posts in here are about Warrior and you're complaining about how other people derail conversations about your job

[Phoenicia]

Meh, Warriors have to take some of the blame for this to be honest.

Not you personally mind, but in general a decent chunk of WAR players have been incredibly obnoxious about their top spot. Busting in to threads about the other tanks, or even other jobs in general, to spam the place up with 'Blue DPS' 'Man mode' & 'Put on your big boy subligar and grab an axe' type rubbish.

I mean, you're not spamming tired half a decade old memes or anything, but you did come in to a thread about Paladin AoE and then end your post talking about Warrior AoE and how Warrior AoE could use some changes to make Warrior play better, and now half the posts in here are about Warrior and you're complaining about how other people derail conversations about your job

It isn't really the warrior players' fault that they picked the job that was actually designed better than its competitors. It also isn't their fault that a clear favoritism on the side of the dev-team exists.

Took all 2 years of complaining for HW PLD to become the beast it is in Stormblood. Took SE less than a patch of complaining about WAR to be COMPLETELY REWORKED, TWICE!! (2.1 and 4.1). But I think it has to do with the attitude of the tanks and how they "complain".

Yes, attitude matters a lot. While warriors have a lot going on for them and their toolkit leaves little to complain about tbh despite there is still some to be desired. There is always something to be improved on after all. Specially in areas that make the job fun to play instead of 10 seconds of fun and 80 of sleeping. But what ends up really happening is warriors either give actual feedback, or just come in to boast how big their... axes are.

On the other hand, you find the other two jobs' complaints are always about what the other jobs have and they don't, completely ignoring what they have on themselves. PLDs cry about no dashing regardless of completely nullifying knockback and the ability to share that with someone else as well via cover. Heck, even DRK managed to complain about WAR's "mobility". Instead of, you know, being mature about discussing the job's actual problems.

Don't get me wrong, the good threads do happen, and a lot of PLD's and DRK's issues are legit. A lot of Lyth's threads about DRK's design are VERY good (you can see them around here on the tank forums). This thread discussing PLD's AoE is another example. But these are, sadly, the minority among the sea of "why do they have it and I don't" cesspool. Maybe that's why WAR gets buffed so quickly while PLD and DRK complaints get ignored. It is very hard to take "give us what they have" seriously because it only looks like jealousy. Just go to the DPS forums and see how well received BLM's requests for Raise are.

As for Kalise, he/she has a point, this is about AoE skills and resource consolidation, it reminded them of WAR and DRK's AoE, and as such, stated what they wish to happen for the other jobs to have their AoE be more fun. Kalise had no intention of hijacking a PLD thread to discuss how OP WAR is. It's other people that did. Just like how I mentioned that stance dancing wasn't something to build on in a game that disfavors stances in the Gunbreaker thread and hell broke loose about how WAR is so OP it doesn't need its tank stance locked ability Inner Beast (which was relegated to "useless status" due to the stance that it is locked behind is "useless") that made a 5 page thread into 25.

I have nothing against their opinions either. If they think a job is OP or UP and have good data to back it up that isn't "I feel it is so" it is fine. And if they do not have said data, then we'll just agree to disagree. I'm not gonna hate them for it. And to be fair, WAR, by design, is at fault of being borderline OP. This is even more exacerbated by the job's popularity, both, for the "meta", the amount of players that enjoy playing it whither for thematic reasons, playstyle or just FotM chasing. When you have twice as many WAR as the other 2 jobs combined, you are bound to find these EXTREMELY good players discovering the shenanigans it can pull off as opposed to certain underplayed jobs *cough*DRK*cough*. But again, this isn't about tank Balance. This is just stating how silly this anti-WAR bias that started in 3.0 is getting at.

[Jandor]

It isn't really the warrior players' fault that they picked the job that was actually designed better than its competitors. It also isn't their fault that a clear favoritism on the side of the dev-team exists.

Took all 2 years of complaining for HW PLD to become the beast it is in Stormblood. Took SE less than a patch of complaining about WAR to be COMPLETELY REWORKED, TWICE!! (2.1 and 4.1). But I think it has to do with the attitude of the tanks and how they "complain".

Loudly and constantly? lol.

On the other hand, you find the other two jobs' complaints are always about what the other jobs have and they don't, completely ignoring what they have on themselves. PLDs cry about no dashing regardless of completely nullifying knockback and the ability to share that with someone else as well via cover. Heck, even DRK managed to complain about WAR's "mobility". Instead of, you know, being mature about discussing the job's actual problems.

<snip>

But these are, sadly, the minority among the sea of "why do they have it and I don't" cesspool. Maybe that's why WAR gets buffed so quickly while PLD and DRK complaints get ignored. It is very hard to take "give us what they have" seriously because it only looks like jealousy.

Dark Knights didn't really complain about the lack of knockback immunity until Warrior got it, before that it was seen as a 'Paladin thing'.

Paladins didn't really complain about lack of gap closer until Warrior got one. Before that having a gap closer was seen as a 'Dark Knight thing'.

Dark Knight didn't really complain about the lack of party shield until, again, Warrior got given one. Before that the party shield was a 'Paladin thing'.

Paladin and Dark Knight had their own unique tools, and Warrior got given versions of those tools, of course it's going to result in complaints about us non-WARs not getting the same access.

It might ease up a bit when Gunbreaker comes out, but right now with three tanks, when just one has something then it's a cool thing that fleshes out their identity, when two have something then the majority of tanks have it and it's seen as a 'tank thing' that their job lacks, and it's always the same job tipping the balance.

<snip>

But again, this isn't about tank Balance. This is just stating how silly this anti-WAR bias that started in 3.0 is getting at.

Eh, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, I don't really have a problem with them bringing up Warrior AoE.