It makes zero sense for the PLD class to have three different skills for AoE

[shao32]

Whether or not the discussion involves WAR has no bearing on you coming in with your crying about WAR at every single chance you get.

Note that my suggestion had no relevance about damage output, merely asking for fluidity of an AoE rotation for WAR that actually works with the tools it has available.

Yet, because you so biased against WAR you instantly took it as an opportunity to rant about how "Overpowered" WAR is and take it as if I said "I wish they made WAR just instantly delete all other tanks when it used Overpower lelelelelelel"

Asking to generate more gauge with an aoe skill, with you already do by shorten the recast of infuriate with decimate and steel, means increase the number of decimate/steel cyclone per second that have pretty high potency already, so it will increase WAR dps on mass pulling equal of the amount of decimates you will gain on the same window of time and the extra dps gain by using constantly aoe skills instead of combos to generate more gauge.

[Kalise]

Asking to generate more gauge with an aoe skill, with you already do by shorten the recast of infuriate with decimate and steel, means increase the number of decimate/steel cyclone per second that have pretty high potency already, so it will increase WAR dps on mass pulling equal of the amount of decimates you will gain on the same window of time and the extra dps gain by using constantly aoe skills instead of combos to generate more gauge.

Unless there was some sort of new expansion that would reshuffle skills and DPS outputs based on new skills and the like that could increase this functionality without it impacting overall DPS output.

Hmmm... If only there was such a thing coming out soon...

No, better just cry some more about WAR's.

[347SPECTRE]

I personally don’t believe in ability bloat.

But flash is the worst action in the game.

It looks bad, it sounds bad, it has the worst enmity gain, and does 0 damage.

While the blind is a nice aspect, that’s literally all it has going for it.

Please stop trying to play the game with1 hotbar though. I play on gamepad and have many empty slots, I also repeat “shield lob” and other actions on multiple hot bars, use all actions, and yes still have empty slots....

Why do people try to jam actions into just 2 bars and then refuse to limit break will always be beyond my comprehension. But hey I don’t pay your sub.




Edit:

Just to help clarify, If I removed the actions that are on my second hotbar off, that are on my first one... My second hotbar would have 6 empty slots, my third hot bar currently has 7 empty slots if I remove sustaining potions (used in Palace of the dead) and my role ability hot bar has 7 empty slots, which also has on it limit break and sprint.

So please. People. Stop trying to jam all your actions onto just 1-2 hot bars. Its really not dificult to cycle between 3 hot bars.... Then pressing R1+Square to switch to a role/general hot bar.

If you're a keyboard user having issues, try switching to gamepad? I thought keyboard was supposed to be "superior" anyway?

You can actually have up to 48 skills on controller without having to switch hotbars using the L+R buttons and the wCross hotbars.

[347SPECTRE]

Unless there was some sort of new expansion that would reshuffle skills and DPS outputs based on new skills and the like that could increase this functionality without it impacting overall DPS output.

Hmmm... If only there was such a thing coming out soon...

No, better just cry some more about WAR's.

*Double post because mobile*

You always seem to come off as being personally attacked when someone mentions WAR needing to be reigned in a bit. I do play WAR and enjoy the heck out of it, but I will agree it does need some reigning in of its skillset.

[PyurBlue]

I think Paladin AoE is too simple. It shouldn't be condensed but expanded. Scorn certainly shouldn't be combined with anything else since it's OGCD. I'd like to see Flash become a damaging attack somehow during AoE to break up the Total Eclipse button mashing, maybe it could use Requiescat in a manner similar to Holy Spirit.

[shao32]

Unless there was some sort of new expansion that would reshuffle skills and DPS outputs based on new skills and the like that could increase this functionality without it impacting overall DPS output.

Hmmm... If only there was such a thing coming out soon...

No, better just cry some more about WAR's.

Dev's show they concerns about tank dps, so you should take this seriously, what are you asking is have more sustained resource generation, thats ok but you have to be aware for a job so heavily build on burst windows will have to get potency reduction for some if not all his aoe skills to compensate that in 5.0, i don't consider WAR/tanks in general need more aoe damage at all since everything dies to quick already, only PLD as much need some extra dps to be more equal to the rest.

[TouchandFeel]

I imagine one of them is going in ShB to be honest.

I hope it's Eclipse personally, and Flash upgrades in to a magic lightning AoE.

Hmmm... to me that's a tough one, I like the look of Eclipse but I agree that it would potentially be prudent to consolidate the two abilities into one functionally.

If I were to do that I would just remove Eclipse and provide PLD with a trait that upgrades Flash to give it some damage as well.
I would keep the holy light theme to it and call it White Light as a little nod to the localization in FFII(FFIV) on SNES in the US where they changed the name of Holy to White.
Visually it would keep the visual effects of Flash but add to it where little white circular motes of light crackle in the area of effect, sort of like how some fireworks look. The little circular white motes would be an homage to the visual representation of the Holy spell in early FF games.

[Kalise]

You always seem to come off as being personally attacked when someone mentions WAR needing to be reigned in a bit. I do play WAR and enjoy the heck out of it, but I will agree it does need some reigning in of its skillset.

I also agree that WAR is in need of some reigning in of its skillset.

Most notably, Inner Release in its current incarnation is way too ridiculous in how powerful it is due to condensing 40% of WAR's overall damage output into a 10s window per 90 seconds. Which also has the side effect of making the rest of WAR's damaging kit feel crap in comparison.

As well as other parts of their kit such as how Holmgang interacts with raid designs (Though, part of this can be mitigated via not pushing the majority of dangerous damage from raid bosses into Tankbusters that are spaced out so sparsely)

However, when people critique literally every part of WAR's kit and try and push out any attempts to ask for changes to make the class more interesting to play (Independently of numerical balance changes) because of the sole reason of "WAR is OVERPOWERED!!!!!11!!1!!" then it's just asinine.

Yes, WAR can be considered overtuned in some aspects, some of which have persisted for a long time. But people seem to be so aggressively anti-WAR that they don't seem to accept anything that isn't "NERF WAR UNTIL THEY'RE ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE. DELETE THEM FROM THE GAME!!!! NERF NERF NERF!"

To say nothing about the fact that half the time, the problem isn't even with WAR being too strong in a specific area they complain about, but rather a specific tank they like being weak in said area (I.e. PLD is the only Tank that has crap snap enmity, but these anti-WAR haters claim that WAR is far and above all other Tanks when DRK also has good snap enmity. PLD is the only Tank that hasn't got any mobility but again WAR is the supreme ultra-mobile mega-gosu Tank despite DRK also having mobility (Albeit a little bit more awkward because their mobility skill is also a DPS gain to spam on CD) etc.)

This alone wouldn't be a problem, if they kept to themselves. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However these people see WAR in a post and IMMEDIATELY start crying about how OP OP OP OP WAR is and start derailing a thread in order to discuss how they believe WAR is so OP that the game should be called Final Warrior: A Warrior Reborn, HeavensWarrior, StormWarrior, WarriorBringers because they're the best class in the entire game.

Dev's show they concerns about tank dps, so you can't take this seriously, what are you asking is have more sustained resource generation thats ok but you have to be aware for a job so heavily build on burst windows will have to get potency reduction for some if not all his aoe skills to compensate that in 5.0, i don't consider WAR/tanks in general need more aoe damage at all since everything dies to quick already, only PLD as much need some extra dps to be more equal to the rest.

Once again, I never posted that I wished for WAR's to have more DPS. At all. Ever.

I merely asked for a more fluid rotation. DRK's get to generate and use their gauge in AoE situations. PLD's get to generate and use their gauge in AoE situations (Though, it's less impactful due to the way Sheltron vs multiple incoming attacks works, however, I wouldn't mind seeing them get another Gauge spender that would work better in AoE). WAR's have to choose between AoE or Gauge generation.

Like, WAR's literally have 2 AoE gauge spenders, but outside of Inner Release, they're not particularly usable, because it's simply better damage and enmity to spam Overpower instead of ST building gauge. Maybe you have an Infuriate to use too... But even then, it's often not worth it to give up on the 5% Crit/Parry you'd have from having a full gauge to use a single AoE spender.

Of course, suggestions I make such as these, take into account that 5.0 suggests to be a significant overhaul of all classes, due to how TP removal will effect things, to say nothing about being tuned for new level 70-80 skills or reworks to existing skills.

Since, at the end of the day, I don't want any class to be OP. I don't play WAR because it's "OP", I play it because back when I made my character in 2.0, WAR is the job that caught my interest. Even though back in 2.0 WAR was garbage balance wise. I want it to continue to be a job that keeps my interest and frankly, SB has been a huge blow to that because they removed a lot of interesting aspects of the job as well as creating the current incarnation of Inner Release, which I hate with a passion.

I honestly think that Inner Release is the biggest mistake made with the WAR job. Since not only is the current iteration just plain not fun because it's just a matter of "Press it then spam Fell Cleave" because it completely takes resources out of the equation (To say nothing on how it nullifies Direct Hit as a stat too) but also it causes balance concerns such as the ones that crop up in threads like these where because it contributes so much of WAR's overall damage and condenses it into such a small timeframe that it gets additional advantages when so many fight designs revolve around burst windows.

[ElazulHP]

Leave Circle of Scorn alone, but I agree about consolidating Flash and Total Eclipse.

[shao32]

Once again, I never posted that I wished for WAR's to have more DPS. At all. Ever.

I merely asked for a more fluid rotation. DRK's get to generate and use their gauge in AoE situations. PLD's get to generate and use their gauge in AoE situations (Though, it's less impactful due to the way Sheltron vs multiple incoming attacks works, however, I wouldn't mind seeing them get another Gauge spender that would work better in AoE). WAR's have to choose between AoE or Gauge generation.

you sugestion was generate more gauge with aoes, aka overpower, to fuel more decimates/steel and don't rely on single target combos in case you need it to gain more gauge.
this cause you get more resources to use more decimates and since decimate/steel have way more potency that overpower (130 vs 200/280) WAR will generate way more dps bcs of that since you will increase the amount tof decimates aviable per encounter outside of inner release.

you didn't ask for a dps increase directly, what you don't notice you ask for a big dps increase indirectly even if ins't was you intention since you didn't add WAR will need potencty ajustment to acomodate you request and don't skyrocket his already big ungabunga dps and that's why some take it like a overpowered sugestion coming from no where, nothing more.