ToS Question on Discord Bots, etc.

[Racen]

That's funny, my own FC's just enacted a rule basically stating "you are not to parse and reveal anybody's performance without their express consent" essentially saying "Look, we know you guys are going to do this, just don't go around talking about it unless somebody actually asks for help with their class"

No links to such things in our Discord either.

here's the thing, everyone should want help with their class. you want to get better at the game. when did getting better at the game become such a taboo idea?

[Keddera_StormMoon]

here's the thing, everyone should want help with their class. you want to get better at the game. when did getting better at the game become such a taboo idea?

There's several areas of thought on this.

- Some people view going deep into the mechanics as the game as "turning it into a job" and refuse to do that with their hobby. I have a similar mindset myself which is why I won't raid, so I sort of "get it"
- Some people have been demeaned by those who misuse parsing as a means to tear down others, so the idea of it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.
- Just as some people are bad at the game, there are still others who have no business teaching but do it anyway. They do it in a manner they think is "helpful" without taking into account how it might be received. But they're so bad at it they don't realize it.
- Dunning-Kruger effect: You're so bad at either doing your class or teaching somebody else you don't realize how bad you actually are and will likely ignore outside input because you think "you're fine"

Thing is, people ignore raw data all the time - just look at today's contriversy's regarding climate change or even vaccinations. The data is there - but people choose to ignore it.

As far as I'm concerned, I believe it's polite to ask first if people want advice. If they won't take it, then move on. If it's your PF group, you are well within your rights at that point to kick them out. If it's a DF - tough luck, you either try to carry them or eat the penalty and move on.

[Barraind]

here's the thing, everyone should want help with their class. you want to get better at the game. when did getting better at the game become such a taboo idea?

It's a thing among the "you dont pay my sub" crowd.

Willful ignorance lets people think they're doing perfectly fine, and anything that would shatter that illusion CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO STAND!

[Keizerwilson]

here's the thing, everyone should want help with their class. you want to get better at the game. when did getting better at the game become such a taboo idea?

Funny enough people who fall into the "I just play for fun" crowd almost always seem to be the most against personal accountability, and actually improving. There's a difference between trying and still coming up short, and flat out not caring. A lot of them just seem to not care.

[bgd624624]

Funny enough people who fall into the "I just play for fun" crowd almost always seem to be the most against personal accountability, and actually improving. There's a difference between trying and still coming up short, and flat out not caring. A lot of them just seem to not care.

You're misunderstanding this. I'm fine with using a parser to improve my job. I'm fine with being held personally accountable in tough content for not hitting the numbers. This game does not allow it though. I'm not fine with breaking the rules to become a better player even if I disagree with those rules (which fwiw I do).

[Alucard135]

You're misunderstanding this. I'm fine with using a parser to improve my job. I'm fine with being held personally accountable in tough content for not hitting the numbers. This game does not allow it though. I'm not fine with breaking the rules to become a better player even if I disagree with those rules (which fwiw I do).

https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363

[Nora_of_Mira]

https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=363

Yoshi P doesn't even think its cheating, lol.

[bgd624624]

here's the thing, everyone should want help with their class. you want to get better at the game. when did getting better at the game become such a taboo idea?

Parsing is explicitly against the ToS of this game. If you violate the ToS, you are cheating. I have no qualms with DPS meters and think it is absurd that the game doesn't allow them. I understand that they help you get better at your class. But like it or not, they are not allowed in this game. If someone wants to use a DPS meter, they should switch to another game and get out. This is not the game for them.

I hope someday this will change. I am not against the concept of parsing. I would love to use a parser to get better here. But I won't.

[MistakeNot]

Parsing is explicitly against the ToS of this game.

True.

If you violate the ToS, you are cheating.

Not necessarily true.

Violating the ToS is breaking the rules, but not all rulebreaking is cheating.
For example, insulting other players in the game also violates the ToS, but I don't see how it could be considered cheating.
"Cheating" implies that you are breaking the rules in a way that give you some advantage, but there are plenty of prohibited actions that do not give you any advantage.

[ExKage]

Not necessarily true.

Violating the ToS is breaking the rules, but not all rulebreaking is cheating.
For example, insulting other players in the game also violates the ToS, but I don't see how it could be considered cheating.
"Cheating" implies that you are breaking the rules in a way that give you some advantage, but there are plenty of prohibited actions that do not give you any advantage.

Thank you! I read through several posts where it felt like no one wanted to address this.