Give the possible Eureka 5.X its own weapon, and separate Relic from it

[Reynhart]

This is literally a case of Eureka players have essentially taken away this content from players and then people keep pointing over at stuff like "Oh, but you have Tome weapons and Primal and Raid weapons"

No, this is literally a case where Yoshida thought that reusing old content was a dead end and use that opportunity to finally create a grindy content for a grindy weapon, content he wanted since the beginning of ARR, and giving casual the tome weapon as an alternative to make sure they still have access to everything.

Meaning that just like how the Relic has always co-existed beside things like Tome weapons, Primal weapons and Raid weapons, there's no reason why it couldn't also co-exist with some unique Eureka weapons that compete with Raid/Primal weapons while being BiS for Eureka itself due to having like elemental bonuses or other Eureka related stats on (In addition to their normal stats)

Yes, there is, because it's a nonsense to have two "grindy" weapons, because they cater to the same type of players.

And it still feels like hypocrisy when people claim to promote "give us more options" to hide that their issue is a simple "I want my toy relic but I don't like the content", because no one complained two years ago when it was announced that the relic would be completely tied to Eureka, or to ask the other weapons to be obtainable by alternate ways.

[Kalise]

No, this is literally a case where Yoshida thought that reusing old content was a dead end and use that opportunity to finally create a grindy content for a grindy weapon, content he wanted since the beginning of ARR, and giving casual the tome weapon as an alternative to make sure they still have access to everything.

"Reusing old content"

By which you mean what exactly?

You keep spouting this about 2.0/3.0 Relics are all about "Reusing old content"

But from what I recall, a lot of them were about using current content. With the only "Reusing of old content" being when people wanted to farm light quickly so they spammed old duties.

When 3.0 had you go around all the HW zones and farm fates for Crystals was that reusing old content?

Sure, part of the awakening had you run old dungeons, but it also included some HW dungeons too.

The rest of it was farming materials such as tomestones and stuff for Crystal Sands. Only old content if you chose to do old content.

because no one complained two years ago when it was announced that the relic would be completely tied to Eureka, or to ask the other weapons to be obtainable by alternate ways.

Almost as if two years ago, people didn't know that Eureka would be just a glorified FATE Train spam repeated 4 times.

That people didn't know it had awful balancing, that there would be so few ways to actually make any progress or that it would have terrible design decisions such as arbitrary EXP systems that serve no purpose other than to be annoying time-gates and at worse, punishment for actually progressing through the content.

Eureka takes the very worst parts of the Relic grinds, the FATE farming (Albeit at least Eureka removes the RNG from the FATE rewards), Light farming and time gated progression (In the form of how gaining Elemental EXP is utter garbage outside of Challenge Logs) and makes that its sole content.

Meanwhile, 2.0/3.0 Relics having a majority of their content just being focused on purchasing items with Tomestones, meant that you inherently just had a variety of things you could do to progress on the Relic. You could do dungeons, Raids, Trials, Roulettes, PotD or PvP.

It wasn't JUST "Kill/AFK in a party next to NM's" and doing awful Light farming (Which again, used to be doable from FATEs, dungeons, Raids, Trials, Roulettes and PvP. Instead of JUST farming garbage in Eureka)

No-one knew 2 years ago that Eureka would be such a big step backwards in terms of Relic progression due to boiling down the activities that contribute it down to a very small set of tasks compared to previous Relics that had multiple different stages and multiple ways to complete many stages due to how they were based around tome generation.

[Reynhart]

But from what I recall, a lot of them were about using current content.

Sure, Tam-Tara normal, Stone Vigil, Brayflox normal, Temple of Qarn, Copperbell Mines, Dzemael Darkhold, Toto-Rak, Cutter's Cry, Sastasha, Aurum Vale, Haukke Manor, Halatali...they were definitely "current content" when Trials Of the Braves were released in 2.28. Like were most of the dungeons used for the Zodiac in 2.45.

When 3.0 had you go around all the HW zones and farm fates for Crystals was that reusing old content?

Well, 3.0 didn't have you go anywhere...by the time of 3.15, technically, that was old...but not older than SnowCloak, Sastasha HM, Qarn HM, Keeper of the Lake, Wanderer's Palace HM, Amdapor Keep HM, ARR beast tribes. Or the next step, reusing the 3-tier of Crystal Tower. Or even the final step, taking you all the way back to Ifrit HM...the same Ifrit HM you had to clear for the very first step of the previous Relic.

Sure, part of the awakening had you run old dungeons, but it also included some HW dungeons too.

Over 10 dungeons, 6 were pre-HW, and the other 4 are leveling dungeons, so yes, they were old in 3.15.

Almost as if two years ago, people didn't know that Eureka would be just a glorified FATE Train spam repeated 4 times.

Yeah, that's my point. You don't care about options at all, you just want a bypass for a content you don't like.

Meanwhile, 2.0/3.0 Relics having a majority of their content just being focused on purchasing items with Tomestones, meant that you inherently just had a variety of things you could do to progress on the Relic. You could do dungeons, Raids, Trials, Roulettes, PotD or PvP.

Except that it's already what you did for everything else in the game since 2.0, so the relic didn't have anything new. Basically, wether you do the relic or not, you'll simply end in the same content throughout your play sessions. That's not variety.

[wereotter]

Meanwhile, 2.0/3.0 Relics having a majority of their content just being focused on purchasing items with Tomestones, meant that you inherently just had a variety of things you could do to progress on the Relic. You could do dungeons, Raids, Trials, Roulettes, PotD or PvP.

This, I think, is my biggest disappointment with this expansion's relic weapon. In Heavensward, I had an incentive to run my level 60 roulette and my level 50 roulette because there was value in the old tomestones to progressing my weapon. This time, a new tomestone comes out and I immediately cap the old one without spending any of them till they're retired and the latest one becomes the old one. It's given me no incentive to running roulettes, and as such, I don't do it anymore. It's actively taken players out of content rather than adding in something more for players to do, and that is a parasitic design that in the long run, is bad for the health of the game.

To me, the best compromise between people who liked Eureka for its progression and everyone else is to make whatever system they use in 5.0 a hybrid of the two. Maybe make it so that there are things you can do in the exploratory zones to advance your weapon, but if you don't want to do it, there's another system. I think the best success of the 3.0 relic was there was always more than one method of completing every step. This let people progress their weapon in a manner that was most enjoyable to them rather than be forced down one path, which is what Eureka has done.