Yotsuyu, Fordola, syndrom of "a good writting"? (spoil)

[Edax]

The problem with Yotsuyu's tale is that nobody in-game learns from it. There's no character arcs. The lesson is basically "people are not born evil". Gosetsu did not judge people by birth, Lord Hien did not judge people by birth and Yugiri was already well aware of race discrimination given she entered Eorzea with a mask. While Kugane and the Samurai storyline does expose this as culture that judges people by birth and not action, Kugane and the Samurai story is not linked whatsoever with Yotsuyu's tale. This is bad writing. Since I already knew that people were not born evil, nothing was gained from the moral of this story.

And given how cartoonishly evil some of the villains have been, I think the game writers still need to learn that people are not born evil.

[Raelsar]

Good point. Though the WoL's unofficial kill count can vary from player to player. The WoL has been in more battles than can be counted, and some may even blame him/her even though the killing blow didn't come from the WoL directly. Since many have stepped forward to let the WoL know how he/she has helped/saved them in the past, it would be really interesting if a particular NPC has a serious disdain for the WoL and we just have no idea why; only to find out later that it was somebody's husband/wife/son/daughter that died during one of their many battles. Actually, I'm pretty curious if there is a side quest I haven't done that addresses this already??

I'll just direct you towards the Dark Knight questlines, specifically that for the level 60-70 range.
Not quite along those lines, but comes rather close to it... and the general context is that the WoL has left a trail of death and destruction a mile wide throughout the whole of the game.

On a speculative note, whenever we arrive is Garlemald I wouldn't be surprised for the local populace (though both propoganda and simple news reports of soldiers who didn't make it back) doesn't take kindly to us.
Assuming we're going there at some point, obviously.

---

Back to the main topic question...

Yotsuyu is a good "tragic villain". Initially set-up as irredeemable, even as early as the first scene she's shown... her being given a second chance and a sympathetic backstory, only to decide to become a monster (quite literally) in the end? It was handled quite well, following the motions of a good tragic villain with the fatal flaw of "wrath". The only real point of contention is her (and Gosetsu) surviving the collapse of Doma Castle, but besides that it works great throughout. You still sympathize with her, even if you accept that you have be to the one to put her down (or arguably, out of her misery) in the end.

Fordola... hmm, a little tougher to elaborate on because the story isn't quite finished yet. Another "tragic villain", but this one seems to be following a more redemptive arc; but since we're still missing the definitive conclusion here, it's tough to evaluate. It's also notable that Fordola is NOT portrayed as needlessly cruel like Yotsuyu was, though she was certainly willing to give and follow questionable orders. Nevertheless, she isn't being shown to be "easily forgiven"... it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the end.

[Theodric]

It's worth noting that in Fordola's case:

- She's only nineteen years old, as revealed in the second edition of the lore book.
- At a younger age, she witnessed her father get stoned to death right in front of her eyes by her own people. Such a sight would traumatise anybody.
- Her goals, whilst misguided, likely would have worked under Gaius.
- Ala Mhigo had been conquered over two decades prior. Fordola had not even been born when it happened.
- A side quest confirms that an undercover agent working for Eorzea deliberately riled up Fordola and convinced her to fire on her own troops in a panic.
- The above is never mentioned in the MSQ's and only shows up in a side quest, yet it is very much a case of feigned outrage on Eorzea's part and if they are to punish Fordola for such an act then they need to be consistent and punish the other party involved...which is unlikely to happen.

[Takamorisan]

Yotsuyu my only beef was how she was executed by her brother and your character just stared at the entire scene even knowing that Gosetsu would be sad if she died. I know she wasn't no saint but at least the story managed to build the idea: Hey no wonder she wanted to torch the entire province.
As for Fordola cool stuff, hope she follow us in Shadowbringers

[AnnaMolly]

Going through the story, I hated both of them. They felt like they were written in to be hated, then you learn more of their backstory and you understand them a little better, the hate turned to pity.

Especially Yotsuyu, that poor girl. I don't want to spoil here but there was a scene elsewhere in Doma where people are remembering the fallen and the thought crosses my mind "No one will be thinking of the poor little girl Yotsuyu used to be." and it made me feel feels. =/

[Cidel]

I'm not a fan of how they handle and write most of their villains. It's true, Yotsuyu and Fordola have a few clichés that I can't help but feel like were shoved in our faces to try and morally conflict us to make them seem "deeper." But still, I do think these two characters are more well-written than a lot of their other "enemies of the week." Remember their portrayal of the Warriors of Darkness? "Oh look, it's the Warrior of Light." *sinister face* "Oh there was a twin, no wonder my poison arrow seemed like it had no effect" *smug sneering* "Oooh, you beat us! Pity our situation." *sadfaces* - Yeah, that was how "deep" those villains who had been built-up for some time came across.

Personally, I think Fordola's situation seems more worth seeing-through. There are similarities between Yotsuyu and Fordola (probably intended), but Yotsuyu was pretty much sociopathic and the only thing really keeping her from being a total hatesink was her convenient amnesia, which as somebody already pointed out, her and Gosetsu's role in the story was more impactful if they had ended in Doma Castle's collapse. But unfortunately, as the writers prove time and time again, they have an incredibly tough time leaving any significant story characters truly dead, and we frequently find out mere patches later that "but wait- not really!" The writers seem to love using the Not Quite Dead trope to the point that it's not even a plot twist anymore and any time somebody "dies" (and hasn't already come back before) I'll expect them to make an appearance back into the story eventually and will be pleasantly surprised if they actually don't.

[Edax]

I'm not a fan of how they handle and write most of their villains. It's true, Yotsuyu and Fordola have a few clichés that I can't help but feel like were shoved in our faces to try and morally conflict us to make them seem "deeper." But still, I do think these two characters are more well-written than a lot of their other "enemies of the week." Remember their portrayal of the Warriors of Darkness? "Oh look, it's the Warrior of Light." *sinister face* "Oh there was a twin, no wonder my poison arrow seemed like it had no effect" *smug sneering* "Oooh, you beat us! Pity our situation." *sadfaces* - Yeah, that was how "deep" those villains who had been built-up for some time came across.

Personally, I think Fordola's situation seems more worth seeing-through. There are similarities between Yotsuyu and Fordola (probably intended), but Yotsuyu was pretty much sociopathic and the only thing really keeping her from being a total hatesink was her convenient amnesia, which as somebody already pointed out, her and Gosetsu's role in the story was more impactful if they had ended in Doma Castle's collapse. But unfortunately, as the writers prove time and time again, they have an incredibly tough time leaving any significant story characters truly dead, and we frequently find out mere patches later that "but wait- not really!" The writers seem to love using the Not Quite Dead trope to the point that it's not even a plot twist anymore and any time somebody "dies" (and hasn't already come back before) I'll expect them to make an appearance back into the story eventually and will be pleasantly surprised if they actually don't.

Oh yeah, Yotsuyu is similar in that we see the Warriors of Darkness smugly act evil as they attempt to commit mass genocide, then at the end the story wants us to feel sorry for them and the Warriors of Darkness start making sad faces. It's was so hamfisted. I get the very strong impression these character aren't fully written out so the attempt to add dimensions to these villains in a later patches come off as retcons. What did the Warriors of Darkness stand to gain by acting smug and condescending? The fact that they never seem conflicted or regretful in their attempt at mass genocide made them completely unsympathetic in my eyes.

Yotsuyu never choose redemption, she was inflicted with brain damage caused by her own malicious actions. So what's the surprise when Yotsuyu choose to be herself? What was at stake? Yotsuyu was never sympathetic in my eyes. She attempted to purge a fishing village, one whom hadn't done anything to her. She never regretted these actions, especially when she had amnesia. Yotsuyu never goes through a character arc, she goes from being herself, to being brain damaged, then back to being herself. There's a reason amnesia is considered hack writing.

[Theodric]

The Warriors of Darkness had the full weight of an entire world on their shoulders. I can't really condemn them for being smug and desperate - especially when the protagonists frequently cheer, nod enthusiastically and bump fists when preparing to slaughter countless enemy combatants. Many of whom are conscripts/individuals forced into dire situations due to just how horrible and messed up a setting Hydaelyn actually is.

[CazzT]

Gonna miss Yotsuyu.

Fordola... she won't be gone soon enough. And yet I can't help but feel that she's going to be shoved down our throats in ShB. -.-'

[Gemina]

I'll just direct you towards the Dark Knight questlines, specifically that for the level 60-70 range.
Not quite along those lines, but comes rather close to it... and the general context is that the WoL has left a trail of death and destruction a mile wide throughout the whole of the game.

On a speculative note, whenever we arrive is Garlemald I wouldn't be surprised for the local populace (though both propoganda and simple news reports of soldiers who didn't make it back) doesn't take kindly to us.
Assuming we're going there at some point, obviously.

Oh yes! I am very familiar with this questline. It's part of what lead to my inquiry because there is just no way the WoL hasn't pissed off at least a few peeps. Even if we exclude Garlemald, the Scions are going to have some haters. Those who are pacifists, and those with opposing political views. I can't remember her name, but there was the one girl in Ishgard who slipped us the sleeping potion before taking an arrow to the chest. While not quite the same because she may not have lost a loved one as a result of the WoL, she was not on board for any peace treaties with the dragons and went to great lengths to stop it.

I think you're right though, and if we ever go to Garlemald, we very likely will not be well-received from its citizens. Or quite a few of them anyway.