So i tanked for the very first time today and i've made up my mind.

[Nerael]

This doesn't sound like a recipe for building a good tank to me. In fact it sounds like your "friends" intentionally hindered your progress and attempted to mold you into a shield-oath-and-aggro-combo-only turtle in a shell instead of a real FFXIV-style tank. If DPS are "trying to pull off me at every turn" and intentionally not attempting to reduce their own enmity generation then those DPS are dicks who are holding the whole party back. More enmity does not mean more DPS. You can do amazing DPS without ripping hate, not on accident and certainly not on purpose. Similarly, when DPS are being dicks and actively trying to rip hate off the tank, then they make it impossible for the tank to do decent amounts of damage. AKA they slow the whole run down for no reason other than to ignorantly stoke their own ego.

Get better friends.

Ah yes, i should've expected a response like this and will leave you in your bubble where DPS always use diversion and perform perfect rotations, people do mechanics perfectly, tanks pop cooldowns and never lose aggro, while the healers never need to res and will be DPSing beyond the occasional heal. Everyone has Best in slot gear and everyone communicates like a well oiled machine.

Reality however is; you will get great players and horrendous players. Experienced players and brand new. Even the best, most experienced player will mess up from time-to-time.

Experiencing a wide-range of situations from best to worst will give you experience and confidence, making you a better player (this counts for all classes btw).

Having friends jokingly pull off you every now and then, in a controlled environment (which in my case was a full premade party), where the healer can handle any situation thrown at them is perfectly fine. A firefighter also practices putting out fires in a controlled environment before handling a real one. Theoretical knowledge will only get you so far.

A tank which has his mettle tested again and again will be better than one which has never had his mettle tested before. They won't crumble under pressure, they will not panic, they will do exactly what they need to, when they need to.

You seemed to have let the entire point of my post go way over your head, so far in fact that based off of 4 lines of text; i need to replace my friends according to you. The entire point of my post was to get more experienced and you will get more comfortable tanking. Get people to help you out if need be and you'll be perfectly fine.

To finalize my response to you; I'm a WAR main atm whom has been tanking 5+ years, if you think I live in Defiance instead of the glory that comes with Deliverance aka Internal Release and Fell cleave/Decimate you are sorely mistaken.

If you've never had friends which pushed you to improve yourself and at the same time joke around with, then it is I who pity you and would advise you the exact same thing which you advised me "Get better friends".

[kashi11]

Ah yes, i should've expected a response like this and will leave you in your bubble where DPS always use diversion and perform perfect rotations, people do mechanics perfectly, tanks pop cooldowns and never lose aggro, while the healers never need to res and will be DPSing beyond the occasional heal. Everyone has Best in slot gear and everyone communicates like a well oiled machine.

Reality however is; you will get great players and horrendous players. Experienced players and brand new. Even the best, most experienced player will mess up from time-to-time.

Experiencing a wide-range of situations from best to worst will give you experience and confidence, making you a better player (this counts for all classes btw).

Having friends jokingly pull off you every now and then, in a controlled environment (which in my case was a full premade party), where the healer can handle any situation thrown at them is perfectly fine. A firefighter also practices putting out fires in a controlled environment before handling a real one. Theoretical knowledge will only get you so far.

A tank which has his mettle tested again and again will be better than one which has never had his mettle tested before. They won't crumble under pressure, they will not panic, they will do exactly what they need to, when they need to.

You seemed to have let the entire point of my post go way over your head, so far in fact that based off of 4 lines of text; i need to replace my friends according to you. The entire point of my post was to get more experienced and you will get more comfortable tanking. Get people to help you out if need be and you'll be perfectly fine.

To finalize my response to you; I'm a WAR main atm whom has been tanking 5+ years, if you think I live in Defiance instead of the glory that comes with Deliverance aka Internal Release and Fell cleave/Decimate you are sorely mistaken.

If you've never had friends which pushed you to improve yourself and at the same time joke around with, then it is I who pity you and would advise you the exact same thing which you advised me "Get better friends".

IDK. I would never do that while teaching someone how to tank. I would explain to them how to play at an optimal level and I wouldnt do anything differently than I normally would do. That way, they know what right looks like. Sure they will get those people that don't use any enmity reduction skills, but those same people don't always have perfect rotations either so you don't always loose hate. I sometimes let those DPS die, then explain to them later about the tools they could be using to not rip aggro. Usually though I'm nice about it and take the boss back and ask them if they have diversion, lucid dreaming, etc. after the pull. If they don't listen they can die, they will learn eventually and that's one way to reset the aggro. (I also only let DPS die if I know we won't wipe from missing their damage)

[Gemina]

Having friends jokingly pull off you every now and then, in a controlled environment (which in my case was a full premade party), where the healer can handle any situation thrown at them is perfectly fine. A firefighter also practices putting out fires in a controlled environment before handling a real one. Theoretical knowledge will only get you so far.

I don't know a whole lot about fire fighting, but I would imagine when they learn how to put them out their friends aren't throwing gasoline into it. It is the fundamentals that are the most important to learn, not the intangibles. The latter is learned through experience and cannot be forced, so when your buddies are intentionally trying to rip hate from you the only thing you're learning is what players do to work against you. Sure, you are going to run into these players but in these situations it is the fundamentals of tanking that will make it harder if not outright impossible for them to rip hate from you.

So if you want to talk about learning to tank properly in less then ideal circumstances and mentioning how players will not always be working with you, I would stay away from comments talking about allowing shitty play in "controlled environments".

When my friends and guildmates helped me to learn and pick up tanking, they offered constructive criticism when I could be doing things better and were there to pick me up if I had a discouraging experience with other players in DF. They would encourage me to pull larger, and when they saw I was getting better they would tell me to be on top of things because they are going to go ham on the next pull. My armor might not be as thick as yours, but if I had your friends I wouldn't be tanking in this game.

[Steelbreeze]

IDK. I would never do that while teaching someone how to tank. I would explain to them how to play at an optimal level

That's like teaching a kindergartner about abstract cubism when they aren't even coloring inside the lines yet. Nobody starts at an optimal level. You teach the basics first, which are exactly two things as a tank. Keep aggro and don't die.

[kashi11]

I taught someone to tank this way before, and while they weren't perfect immediately, they picked up the basics quickly. Being well informed and aware of what they can improve on from the very beginning allows them to constantly grow and make adjustments on the fly. I'd rather tell them all they need to know from the get go, see what they absorb, then make small corrections and reminders here and there. Practice doesnt always make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

[hynaku]

Just don't play as a healer if think tank job is bad. Healers get no respect. Dps is safe route to play.

[Katie_Kitty]

A tank which has his mettle tested again and again will be better than one which has never had his mettle tested before. They won't crumble under pressure, they will not panic, they will do exactly what they need to, when they need to.

Unless you shirked them and let them die when they went out of their way to try to steal hate from you, then them trying to steal hate from you did not teach you anything useful at all.

[aqskerorokero]

One can be tested tanking only with pugs....

[Ilyrian]

Just don't play as a healer if think tank job is bad. Healers get no respect. Dps is safe route to play.

I think that's an over simplification.

*In all content up to EX/Savage*
Good healers get ignored, (unless it's acknowledgement from another healer) - bad ones get called out occasionally. If it's an 8 man a good healer can carry the other.
It's rare that a DPS questions a healer in my experience.
Bad tanks can be carried by a good healer and are usually forgiven for most mistakes as they have the privilege of being considered rare.

In my experience bad DPS are the first to be called out as they are perceived as dispensable.

*Your mileage may vary, obviously.

[Lantia]

Ah yes, i should've expected a response like this and will leave you in your bubble where DPS always use diversion and perform perfect rotations, people do mechanics perfectly, tanks pop cooldowns and never lose aggro, while the healers never need to res and will be DPSing beyond the occasional heal. Everyone has Best in slot gear and everyone communicates like a well oiled machine.

Reality however is; you will get great players and horrendous players. Experienced players and brand new. Even the best, most experienced player will mess up from time-to-time.

So your friends could have just stopping being jerks and told you: Get always best gear you can get (even if GIL needed) to bypass all situation.

Healer is not having best gear? -> Your gear is bypassing that
DPS kills not fast enough? -> Your gear is bypassing that
Bad equipped DPS tries to get enmity -> Ahaha! Your gear is bypassing that!
BiS DPS are trying to get enmity -> Either your gear is still bypassing that or reread a guide for enmity rota


You cannot agure with "that is in my optinion best to learn it" if almost all cases can be ignored if tank has best gear. PLD can even heal themself.... also can you not throw "DPS tries to get enmity" with "DPS are not doing best rotation and not having best gear" in one statement. Let them try to get enmity as it will not bother you in anyway.... if it does... well... your problem is not "unexpected moments" but how to tank 101