Love for the female characters

[SenorPatty]

It might be also the timing of it all. Moenbryda, Yugiri and Hilda generated a lot of hype at their initial appearance. So did Yotsuyu of course.

Then there's how, for example, Merlwyb is super popular amongst the femroe community (yes it exist. Very niche but it does.) Tataru is also a fan favorite for a lot people.

So I guess at the end of the day, it just depends on when you were when the ladies, other than catgirls, make their debut.

Btw, Y'shtola being miqote may have snagged people on looks alone but it's her badass and no-nonsense attitude that captured our hearts.

[Bright-Flower]

I just couldn't get into Yotsuyu and she made 4.2 and 4.3 perhaps the worst part of the msq for me.

Her backstory is legit messed up, but it takes more than a sob story to make me feel bad for a character introduced to use abusing her position of power to force villagers to murder eachother. Sorry but at that point it doesn't matter to me what sad backstory they throw in to try and justify it. And then that aweful 'childlike innocence via amnesia' trope they threw in.

I wasn't happy or sad when she died, I was just RELIEVED she was gone and took Asahi with her.

As far as female characters I do like, I feel Fordola was handled a bit better. She did terrible things, but the way she was handled was infinitely better than Yotsuyu imo. I feel like the uncontrollable echo flashbacks forcing her to experience the suffering she dished out to others was a much better punishment. I liked that though the leaders thanked her for helping in 4.1, she was clearly not being forgiven for everything she did. And of course, nothing we saw her do ever came across as pointlessly sadistic as making villagers shoot eachother to get her jollies off.

I also really like Hilda, and wish she'd gotten more screen time, maybe with her and Aymeric as co leaders of sorts with her taking up a position in the house of commons. Such a great character but her role in the story was short lived.

I never really cared for Y'stola to be honest but I never minded Minfilia in ARR much.

M'naago is another character I like, though like Hilda she doesn't get a huge role or anything.

I always look forward to seeing Matoya. I may not care about Yshtola but I still felt her pain this last patch when we tell her about what's happening.

Ysale was another character I liked a lot in HW. The trip with her, Estinien and Alph is probably my favorite section of the MSQ the game has to offer.

[AmemeAmeklin]

Here's where I express my love for the following ladies:

Alisae (ALIBAE LET'S GO PUNCH STUFF TOGETHER)
Hilda (SASS MASTER I LOVE HER)
Rielle (WAAAAAH HUG HER PROTECT HER)
Merlwyb (ARMORER QUESTS NEED I SAY MORE)
Sisipu (I DIED LAUGHING DURING THE POSTMOOGLE QUESTS FOR REAL THOUGH)
Moenbryda (SHE DRANK THANCRED UNDER THE TABLE HOW COULD YOU NOT LOVE HER)
Ysayle (WHY COULDN'T I HELP HER)
Skaetswys (SHE'S GONNA BEAT A SPINE INTO THE KOBOLDS OR DIE TRYING)
Y'shtola (little sun)
Matoya (SHE'S MY FUTURE SELF PROBABLY)
Lucia (SHE'S AWESOME ENOUGH SAID)

Honorable mentions:
Ga Bu's mom
That one FSH quest chick who hits on male WoLs
The dancer from the quest where you learn the ballroom dance
Julyan (RUN)
Nashu
Hydaelyn
Tataru
Yugiri

I personally don't like Lyse, but that's because she lost her sense of humor and you can't find her running around doing silly things anymore. As Yda she was a lot of fun, having squat contests with Hoary Boulder and so on. Fortunately she hasn't pulled an Aymeric on us yet and made poor decisions about eyeballs. (Also fortunately Estinien has taken said eyeballs out of the equation.)

[Kalise]

-Snip-

I think the major difference between Yotsuyu and Fordola is that, for the most part, Fordola signed up for the crap she got.

Like, Yotsuyu is a real monster. Literally the first time we see her she tries to get a guy to kill his own parents for her amusement. She's clearly sign posted as evil. But upon delving into her past, we get to know that she was made this way by how she was treated. She was basically considered to have the same worth as dirt in how she was raised. No-one cared about her for even a second. As such, she learned to treat other people like dirt since, well, that's all she knew.

The reversion into Tsuyu is basically her getting to live out a childhood where she could actually be a child. Where someone could, for once in her entire life, care about her. Treating her like an actual human being.

Meanwhile, Fordola... She basically got tired of the crap she got from the Imperials (Like every other non-Garlean race...), especially with the taunts she got because of her father working for the Imperials and decided to sign up and try and prove herself.

Not knowing that, Garleans don't give a crap about non-Garleans and even then, a single failure can get even high ranking Garleans exiled/executed because weakness is not tolerated.

So when the time came to try an experimental augmentation, she was easy to chose because if it went wrong, no-one would care. Then when all of her friends were killed by the Imperials, she realized that shockingly they never gave a crap about her or her people and never will.

Now she's all mopey because she sold her soul to the devil and betrayed her own and has nothing to show for it and realizes she never would. She did all the horrible things because she thought that it might get her people a better life than being "Savages" that are seen as less than human (Err... Garlean?)

Like, literally, she had the choice to go and fight for the Resistance. She took the "Easy" path and tried to make a name for herself within the Empire at the cost of the very people she was fighting for. She's now realizing just how much she messed up with that decision and is now being crushed by the guilt of all the horrible things she's done with no light at the end of the tunnel to justify it.

To top it off... The very people whom she hurt the most, have forgiven her. How is she supposed to get what she feels she deserves, if the people whom she was fighting against give her another chance not only after achieving the very thing she set out to do (Despite her efforts to stop them in pursuit of her own path to the same end), but also allowing her to atone as a Hero? Like, immediately she was given trust and put in a position to choose to be a hero despite all the things she had done. Despite her feeling as though she was beyond redemption.

So yeah... It's hard to feel quite as teary eyed with Fordola, because she wasn't really forced into being evil. She chose it as she thought it was the best decision to make.

However, she's also right on the precipice of a major redemption arc if she gets more exposure in the post-Lakshmi story. One where she, begrudgingly, starts to become a hero. Well, as far as is possible, given that the people detest her. Meanwhile she'd also have to struggle with the fact that she doesn't want to just act as though all the horrible things she did had no consequence, she doesn't want to "Atone" for them by doing nice things and considering them balanced out. She'll want to carry her guilt with her for the rest of her life, even if she becomes heroic and people start to actually like her and forgive her.

Maybe at some point she could actually go on to learn to forgive herself. Due to all the support she gets from those she wronged, as well as Lyse, the WoL and M'Naago etc. Where she'd just break down into tears at the idea that, she isn't condemned because of what she's done. She isn't a monster. She no longer has to carry this massive guilt around with her. She's found a place where she's actually respected as an EQUAL (Especially if she grows to admire people like the WoL/Lyse for how they treat other people, including turncoat Imperials such as the Populares)

[Burningskull]

I like to dabble in writing fiction, and I think something anyone who does or tries to write will all agree to is that writing interesting villains is FAR easier to do than hero's and heroine's. I think a big reason for this is because with villains, we always see the outside first before we find out how they became to be. With protagonists, it's the opposite. They are often birthed from tragedy and as a result, they have a full head of steam going forward to correct all that is wrong in the world with a myriad of motivations provided by the antagonist to choose from. Villains are just more flexible to giving them multiple sides to their personality and typically have one motivation that drives them that contrasts what is truly in their hearts. This creates internal conflict that all of us relate to.

Yotsuyu is no different. We are introduced to this absolutely vile woman. Ruthless, cruel, foul, rotten, and malicious. A true monster. Then here comes Tsuyu; a complete and total mirror reflection swap and as innocent as a toddler. Through Tsuyu, we see what Yotsuyu would have been under proper care and nurturing. Nothing brought me to tears more for her arc than when she lets us know that accepting Gosetsu's kindness is akin to torture.

Fordola didn't leave me in tears, but I still felt bad for her. Problem with her though is that I am now waiting for her to become Batman. Through her though we definitely get to see where the Garlean's perception of Eorzean's being savages comes from because well, we kind of are; or at least we are very capable of exhibiting the behavior of savages. What else would you call it when the WoL goes ham on the Heavensward guard and bathing him/herself in blood?

Still though, it's tough to find any Eorzean as rotten as some of the members of the empire. Yotsuyu's half brother was the very definition of a weasel with no morale compass whatsoever. Even Ilberd and Zenos still have respect for the WoL, but the way that punk talks to us prior to the prisoner exchange seriously ruffled my feathers. If we were truly savage, he would've died right there and then.

Eh... I like a good "let's watch the world burn for the sake of burning it" to tho lol. Heath Ledger's Joker comes to mind as a good villian to love to hate.

Unfortunately I didn't find Yotsuyu interesting. You could show Hitler as a toddler, but so what? You can't rehabilitate genocide. Sure, Hitler could have gotten into art college and became a different person, but so what? You can't rehabilitate genocide. Tsuyu still had an ocean of blood on her hands, even if she was ignorant of it. I had no sympathy. What of the dead? They didn't get second chance, some didn't even get a first chance because of Yotsuyu. The community of Doma shares responsibility for creating Yotsuyu for not intervening with her parents, but the story doesn't show it. She was evil, then she had amnesia, then she was evil and then that was the end of her tale. The people of Doma just passively watched this tale. The moral of the story is to have a nice family? That's pretty weak. Children can't choose family.

I didn't say what she did wasn't wrong or that she shouldn't be held accountable. Just that I felt sorry for her. There is a difference. She was an orphan, from what I understood those weren't her real parents and brother. Her foster parents litteraly beat her down physically and mentally, and then sold her to a pleasure house, basically making her a forced prostitute, for money. There is also a story quest somewhere where you are told her parents traded her to an imperial for a chance to send her step brother and her family to the main city in garlamald tho so I'm not sure which happened first. But when a cultural society ALLOWS for stuff like that to happen to their own people cause it's accepted as a culture, it needs to be burned down and rebuilt weather it's a villian or a hero that does it. Her story reminds me of the Korean? people that would send their daughters through a field to check for mines before they would chance to cross it with their cow because the daughters were deemed of less worth than the cow. That is a culture / socieity that needs to be changed. Which is how I see the Domans. I have no pity for the Domans that created Yotsuyu. The ones that did stuff to or the ones that looked the other way. But that doesn't mean that her continually punishing later generations is ok either.

[Edax]

I think the major difference between Yotsuyu and Fordola is that, for the most part, Fordola signed up for the crap she got.

Like, Yotsuyu is a real monster. Literally the first time we see her she tries to get a guy to kill his own parents for her amusement. She's clearly sign posted as evil. But upon delving into her past, we get to know that she was made this way by how she was treated. She was basically considered to have the same worth as dirt in how she was raised. No-one cared about her for even a second. As such, she learned to treat other people like dirt since, well, that's all she knew.

The reversion into Tsuyu is basically her getting to live out a childhood where she could actually be a child. Where someone could, for once in her entire life, care about her. Treating her like an actual human being.

Meanwhile, Fordola... She basically got tired of the crap she got from the Imperials (Like every other non-Garlean race...), especially with the taunts she got because of her father working for the Imperials and decided to sign up and try and prove herself.

Not knowing that, Garleans don't give a crap about non-Garleans and even then, a single failure can get even high ranking Garleans exiled/executed because weakness is not tolerated.

So when the time came to try an experimental augmentation, she was easy to chose because if it went wrong, no-one would care. Then when all of her friends were killed by the Imperials, she realized that shockingly they never gave a crap about her or her people and never will.

Now she's all mopey because she sold her soul to the devil and betrayed her own and has nothing to show for it and realizes she never would. She did all the horrible things because she thought that it might get her people a better life than being "Savages" that are seen as less than human (Err... Garlean?)

Like, literally, she had the choice to go and fight for the Resistance. She took the "Easy" path and tried to make a name for herself within the Empire at the cost of the very people she was fighting for. She's now realizing just how much she messed up with that decision and is now being crushed by the guilt of all the horrible things she's done with no light at the end of the tunnel to justify it.

To top it off... The very people whom she hurt the most, have forgiven her. How is she supposed to get what she feels she deserves, if the people whom she was fighting against give her another chance not only after achieving the very thing she set out to do (Despite her efforts to stop them in pursuit of her own path to the same end), but also allowing her to atone as a Hero? Like, immediately she was given trust and put in a position to choose to be a hero despite all the things she had done. Despite her feeling as though she was beyond redemption.

So yeah... It's hard to feel quite as teary eyed with Fordola, because she wasn't really forced into being evil. She chose it as she thought it was the best decision to make.

However, she's also right on the precipice of a major redemption arc if she gets more exposure in the post-Lakshmi story. One where she, begrudgingly, starts to become a hero. Well, as far as is possible, given that the people detest her. Meanwhile she'd also have to struggle with the fact that she doesn't want to just act as though all the horrible things she did had no consequence, she doesn't want to "Atone" for them by doing nice things and considering them balanced out. She'll want to carry her guilt with her for the rest of her life, even if she becomes heroic and people start to actually like her and forgive her.

Maybe at some point she could actually go on to learn to forgive herself. Due to all the support she gets from those she wronged, as well as Lyse, the WoL and M'Naago etc. Where she'd just break down into tears at the idea that, she isn't condemned because of what she's done. She isn't a monster. She no longer has to carry this massive guilt around with her. She's found a place where she's actually respected as an EQUAL (Especially if she grows to admire people like the WoL/Lyse for how they treat other people, including turncoat Imperials such as the Populares)

It's also really strange that Fordola has shown how much she's willing to sacrifice for the Empire, and yet the Empire end up caring more about Viceroy Yotsuyu, who doesn't even care about the Empire slightly. Fordola fought her way up through adversity and the Empire didn't care. Yotsuyu never had much control with her life and was sold into prostitution and became the Viceroy for the Empire? The problem with these stories is that they contradict with each other. Yotsuyu never chose redemption, never tried to actively fix her mistakes and instead had sympanty imposed on her via brain damage and Imperial interige. Fordola decisions are entirely understandable in the context of no one caring for her, but against how Yotsuyu was treated by the Empire it makes no sense. It's very strange. Why treat a Doman citizen as an Imperial and not an Imperial citizen willing to fight for the Empire?

One moment the Empire goes to great lengths to save their collaborators, the next they're watching them get stoned in the street with disinterest and basically let a riot ensue.

[Bright-Flower]

I worry that the short story they put up that has her and Arenvald off to fight Ifrit or w/e is the 'epilogue' to Fordola's story. I was hoping that as we returned to ala mhigo in 4.5 she'd return too. Maybe in part 2 but I'm losing hope.

As for Yotsuyu, keep in mind that she was part of their plan to get 'Doma' to summon a primal. The empire itself may not have much cared for her if Elidibus hadn't hatched a plan involving her. Heck, they only really want her back officially for intelligence probably as she was an acting viceroy of the province. The empire never 'valued' Yotsuyu, I think they just wanted to make sure she didn't blab anything and Elidibus was using her as a piece in his scheme.

Fordola was the only one of the three main antagonists I had any investment in but they definitely seemed to be going for a 'were they born or made monsters' question with her, Yotsuyu and Zenos. The latter of the three also still being a wild card....

[Edax]

I worry that the short story they put up that has her and Arenvald off to fight Ifrit or w/e is the 'epilogue' to Fordola's story. I was hoping that as we returned to ala mhigo in 4.5 she'd return too. Maybe in part 2 but I'm losing hope.

As for Yotsuyu, keep in mind that she was part of their plan to get 'Doma' to summon a primal. The empire itself may not have much cared for her if Elidibus hadn't hatched a plan involving her. Heck, they only really want her back officially for intelligence probably as she was an acting viceroy of the province. The empire never 'valued' Yotsuyu, I think they just wanted to make sure she didn't blab anything and Elidibus was using her as a piece in his scheme.

Fordola was the only one of the three main antagonists I had any investment in but they definitely seemed to be going for a 'were they born or made monsters' question with her, Yotsuyu and Zenos. The latter of the three also still being a wild card....

If the Empire never valued Yotsuyu, they never would have given the position of Viceroy to a "barbarian". She had direct command over Imperial forces so it goes beyond the Empire just using her for a primal.

[Burningskull]

It's also really strange that Fordola has shown how much she's willing to sacrifice for the Empire, and yet the Empire end up caring more about Viceroy Yotsuyu, who doesn't even care about the Empire slightly. Fordola fought her way up through adversity and the Empire didn't care. Yotsuyu never had much control with her life and was sold into prostitution and became the Viceroy for the Empire? The problem with these stories is that they contradict with each other. Yotsuyu never chose redemption, never tried to actively fix her mistakes and instead had sympanty imposed on her via brain damage and Imperial interige. Fordola decisions are entirely understandable in the context of no one caring for her, but against how Yotsuyu was treated by the Empire it makes no sense. It's very strange. Why treat a Doman citizen as an Imperial and not an Imperial citizen willing to fight for the Empire?

One moment the Empire goes to great lengths to save their collaborators, the next they're watching them get stoned in the street with disinterest and basically let a riot ensue.

I felt sorry for Fordola to, just not as much as Yotsuyu. Please not that I did not feel sorry for Yotsuyu because of her "childlike" state at the end but for what was done to her. The same for Fordola. Her father was killed by her own people cause her family tried to make the best of what happened to them and their country and the other Ala Mhigan's couldn't accept that. To top it off the Garleans that her family was trying to get along with just let her father die. So she grows up later and wants to make everyone respect her and fear her as punishment for what happened to her. Then she gets granted the echo and is being punished for what she did because she is made to feel everything that her victims had to fell through the resonant. At the same time she choose what to become tho. And I guess you could say Yotsuyu choose what to become as well... but I think the choices were very unequal to them. Yotsuyu's choice was to stay a prostitute or imperials trophy wife or work with Zeno's and rise through the ranks of the Empire. Fordala's choice was to either work to better her nation / free her nation through the resistance or join the Garleans to try and make the Garleans respect people outside their race.

[Gemina]

Unfortunately I didn't find Yotsuyu interesting. You could show Hitler as a toddler, but so what? You can't rehabilitate genocide. Sure, Hitler could have gotten into art college and became a different person, but so what? You can't rehabilitate genocide. Tsuyu still had an ocean of blood on her hands, even if she was ignorant of it. I had no sympathy. What of the dead? They didn't get second chance, some didn't even get a first chance because of Yotsuyu. The community of Doma shares responsibility for creating Yotsuyu for not intervening with her parents, but the story doesn't show it. She was evil, then she had amnesia, then she was evil and then that was the end of her tale. The people of Doma just passively watched this tale. The moral of the story is to have a nice family? That's pretty weak. Children can't choose family.

Don't get me wrong, I never said she was a redeemable character. But it was Yotsuyu who is blood stained, not Tsuyu. If Lord Hien felt as you do, he would have finished her off right in front of Gosetsu without a second thought to bring justice to the Domans.

From my character's perspective, I harbored no sympathy for Yotsuyu and failed to trust her even after Yugiri said that her memory loss is legit. Like I said in my post though, she swapped places with her mirror reflection and was no longer Yotsuyu. Of course, this doesn't erase or pardon her treachery and had her memory never returned and allowed to live out her days as a citizen of Doma, Lord Hien would constantly have to intervene with his people to prevent her from being murdered. Anyone who put her to the blade would be killing a child, and have to be punished accordingly to Doma's laws. What really pissed me off about Yotsuyu was that she was able to flee from Hien's establishment not once, but TWICE! It was almost as if we wanted someone to kill her since we couldn't do it ourselves.

I think the moral of the story is not to have a nice family, but rather everyone is born innocent and monsters are created.