Please no more Eureka!

[TalithaSolarien]

Still true though. Its one or two group spawning while 75% are just waiting in the bunny fate.

Assuming that your'e talking about Pyros there is a very good reason why most people are doing that. If you aren't max-level and don't enjoy Thief-like navigation then moving around in Pyros is extremely dangerous due to the positioning of the mobs and their level. Add in the fact that the southern Bunny FATE is the most reliable source of Logos for most people (and you mostly just get Bronze chests anyway) and you have the reason why people rarely move away from here. The while northern part is mostly abandoned, except for some FATEs.

[Nariel]

Assuming that your'e talking about Pyros there is a very good reason why most people are doing that. If you aren't max-level and don't enjoy Thief-like navigation then moving around in Pyros is extremely dangerous due to the positioning of the mobs and their level. Add in the fact that the southern Bunny FATE is the most reliable source of Logos for most people (and you mostly just get Bronze chests anyway) and you have the reason why people rarely move away from here. The while northern part is mostly abandoned, except for some FATEs.

Oh I know, I've been through the whole thing, I'm not of those guys "why don't you help urr durr" when people barely under the level can't even dent the lifebar on a trash. Plus the rabbits are needed for logos action and for many people they are as important and take priority over fate. Its more of a design problem than a player mindset problem. It was already annoying back in anemos when those lv 20 guys expected me a lv 5 to hit 12 on a HP sponge they already burn to death in mere second.

[Ilan]

Still true though. Its one or two group spawning while 75% are just waiting in the bunny fate.

Or they are waiting in the base until the NM's spawn, instantly move over there and pull or are to long afk and complain afterwards that no one waited for them.

Sounds absolutly like eureka.

[Nariel]

Or they are waiting in the base until the NM's spawn, instantly move over there and pull or are to long afk and complain afterwards that no one waited for them.

Sounds absolutly like eureka.

Yup, as much as I can understand people can be bored and don't want to make effort and I did it sometime too for my sanity but if your not here for the pull its your mistake and you have to assume your loss.

[TalithaSolarien]

Oh I know, I've been through the whole thing, I'm not of those guys "why don't you help urr durr" when people barely under the level can't even dent the lifebar on a trash. Plus the rabbits are needed for logos action and for many people they are as important and take priority over fate. Its more of a design problem than a player mindset problem. It was already annoying back in anemos when those lv 20 guys expected me a lv 5 to hit 12 on a HP sponge they already burn to death in mere second.

Yes, it's one of the more annoying design problems plaguing Pyros for new players: bunnies are the only really useful source of Logos you have. NM's rarely drop then and sprite farming SOLO is really unpractical as you have to onlevel with the sprites and most of them are in areas sprawling with dangerous mobs.

I've done my fair share of spawning mobs in Anemos and Pagos but I have to admit that I'm also parking myself currently the Bunny FATE when no NM is up. I don't like it, but it's the only way to get reliable Logos.

[Nariel]

Yes, it's one of the more annoying design problems plaguing Pyros for new players: bunnies are the only really useful source of Logos you have. NM's rarely drop then and sprite farming SOLO is really unpractical as you have to onlevel with the sprites and most of them are in areas sprawling with dangerous mobs.

I've done my fair share of spawning mobs in Anemos and Pagos but I have to admit that I'm also parking myself currently the Bunny FATE when no NM is up. I don't like it, but it's the only way to get reliable Logos.

Same here, the only good point being that Hydatos bunnies are really doable from the strat due to the space between pack of mobs and you can really start to get some nice logos even at low level, alleviating the pain because you can at least make some progress everytime you get a bunny whatever your level.

[Reynhart]

I stand by Alleo's statements that standard content like dungeons,should not be counted as endgame 'casual' content because they are accessible by everyone.

It's strange because, from your statement, it seems you're assuming that casual and hardcore players simply do different content. That's not really how MMOs work. Hardcore players don't do different content than casual, they do more.

Because, if you take things like dungeons to be 'casual' content, might as well consider the MSQ, casual content.

I don't count the MSQ because, in a sense, it's not supposed to be "optionnal" content. If we only look at "optionnal" content, any casual content is something that doesn't require a high skill level, doesn't require heavy playtime (more specifically, long sessions of playtime), and use very little RNG to decide how it rewards you. And, by the most basic definition, endgame content is any content that you do at max level and that give endgame level rewards.

So I'll maintain that if Eureka is not meant to be 'casual' content, the disparate tidbits which are supposed to be 'casual' endgame content are not on the same scale or have the ability to keep players engaged like Eureka.

Problem is, this is kind of false. First, the scale of Eureka is closely tied to the time you're supposed to spend there. And you can't expect a casual content to require the same playtime as a non-casual content, because that's the main metric that separates the two. And when it comes to the length of engagement, the various weekly caps make it so that, if you have all the playtime you want, you'll actually finish gearing in Eureka earlier than what you would have by Expert dungeons, normal raids or alliance raids.

There's a continuity in Eureka, which none of the disparate bits of content, which are supposed to be the 'casual' endgame,have.

Omega has its own continuity, Ivalice has its own continuity and the Four Lords has its own continuity. You don't need a single continuity to cover every casual content, because it would only makes the requirements to each tier harsher.

While people who enjoy Eurkea get to explore entire new zones, storylines,etc, what do 'casuals' get?

Again, they got the content I've already mentionned. It seems that you brush that off because they didn't receive new content in 4.55, but casual content was not usually released mid-patch in the past either. From that pov, raiders and grinders didn't receive anything in 4.5. Or simply because raiders/grinders were also experimenting the 4.5 content, but again, casual content is not something that only casuals do, it's something than everyone do.

By all means,reward party play but do not punish solo play.

Eureka does not "punish" solo play (Not since the challenge log was created, at least), it only makes the progression slower, which is understandable since this is an MMO.

The problem I see with a new casual content is what rewards you would gain. Tomestones is the most casual form of rewards, since it's completely separated from RNG, can be done little by little, and allow you to buy endgame gear. And you already have tons of ways to gain tomestones with very little playtime.

[Alleo]

A little question then : You seem to have enough playtime available so that capping tomestones and obtaining weekly loot is too fast, you don't like raiding, and you don't like Eureka. So, what kind of content would actually please you ?

Well if a casual player is simply someone that barely plays the game at all then yes the standard stuff would be enough. But there are enough definitions out there that say that its not about the time but about how "deep" they go into this. Someone could play a big amount of time but only care for the easier content and that is still a casual player (for me and for some sites) while you might not play something that much but dedicate your time when you play to do the harder stuff thus you are not casual anymore.

So even if you just play two hours per day you might run out of battle content because not everyone wants to just run a dungeon again and again thus why they created things like Diadem or even PotD. To give people something new to do. Eureka looked like it would be something for the majority too yet suddenly it was always just meant to be niche content?

About me: Right now I mostly craft and sell these items to earn gil. I barely cap my tomestones because I see no reason to why I should do that. I have enough gear to do any new dungeon easily and since I dont raid I dont need better ones anyway. In the past I also did one relic weapon in the down time, simply because I could do it at my own pace and because it would give me a nice weapon to look at. Any dungeons I do, I run for either glamour, mats or to exchange the gear to get mats. I did like PotD and still do this. Either by trying it solo (but that was kinda destroyed by all the DCs on Chaos) or by farming it with a friend. I probably will farm HoH with him too in the future but HoH is still nothing but a copy of PotD with some small changes thus why I dont count it as completely new.

If the relic was in interesting content or maybe like the old one (but with changes to the really disliked parts) then I would also do that. But I find Eureka to be boring. I am not a fan of fates and Eureka is just fates and monster killing. Maybe if it had more things to do other than that I would do it but as if its now I dont. I see no reason why I should level up my character again and even all the rewards behind it are not enough to make me do it till the end.

So I want content which I can do on my own time. Where I can challenge myself if I want to do that or where I can have some nice hours with my friend farming it. I dont want it something where I am either forced to search ingame for a group or where I need huge amount of hours to maybe get something. (I dislike huge layers of RNG) Eureka cant be truly done solo, it cant even be done with just another friend, especially if that one is lower or higher with the level. You either join the train or hope that you reach the boss fates fast enough. And since I am not someone that sits back and afk, it was quite stressfull too. I just dont want to mindlessly kill the same monsters again and again. On top of that Eureka has the loss of exp and its random if you get any good rewards too.

Alleo,seems to be in the same boat as me.

.

Thank you, your post is exactly what I meant but I have a huge problem of writing something down short and to the point x)'.

Its just strange how somehow Eureka is niche content yet at the same time how big that niche content is. Nothing huge like that was ever introduced in one expansion. Even PVP with its many maps only got them slowly over time and over two expansions. Yet somehow we should accept that Eureka with new systems, new maps and the relic quest line was never intended to be the endgame content for majority of the players? That the devs would be fine if even the JP playerbase, that seemingly does everything as long as its in the game, has only around 18% at lvl cap in Pyros? At a time where there is no new Ultimate, no new other casual long term content available?

[Leanna]

I'm emphasizing that in my reply because the one I replied to has mistakenly assumed that I'm comparing Eureka and previous relic in terms of hardness, and that was never a point I raised. Our point for preferring Eureka over previous relic style was time and enjoyment, not difficulty. And I know there are people who don't like Eureka and find it boring. But you don't see those who enjoy it asking for other content to be removed just like some here who are even asking that no rewards should be placed there.

But other content doesn't stop SE from making other content, Eureka does.
You can do an ARR relic in two weeks while totally playing casually, the HW's one takes a bit longer but not that much. And as TwistedTea said, those relics doesn't have as MANY rewards as Eureka does, Eureka does have a crap ton of rewards to bribe people to do it and still less than 5% of the community bothered with it, ARR and HW relics are more popular than the Eureka ones.

And all this "BiS" nonsense is nonsense, unless you have the NEED to have a "BiS" relic for a few leveling dungeons in 5.0 Lol
Eureka isn't worth a fancy glamour (fancy only for DRK/WAR/BLM)

[SublimeIbanez]

Second coil (savage) died due to lack of rewards. Doing it "for fun" doesn't work even if the content is fun.

That's a fallacy. The rewards were tied to normal coil raids at the time which was one of the major issues involving SCOB Savage (I personally loved them). I think a better argument, and the argument they're trying to make, is that rewards not related to the content itself shouldn't be implemented within said content. You get weapons from the final boss in savage raids and ultimates because that's the deserved reward for completing the "most difficult" fight in the game at that time, the most "powerful" weapon. The mounts are directly related to the raids themselves (similar to Ozma mount, though the dungeon being locked behind Eureka grind is a different conversation). The relic has been its own entity and doesn't belong in said content, especially when the story nor the world really imply a meaningful connection to the content and the relic.

Look at how Ultimates work. Similar to what someone said before, those who have no desire to complete it aren't burdened by missing out on available niceties outside of the related weapon (1 materia slot stronger than that tier's weapon) and a related title. People who are after that type of content are still attempting and completing it and have fun doing it, for the most part.

Personally, I tried Eureka and hated it as it reminded me of the boredom that is fate trains. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it if it were its own niche like the ultimates and didn't pull nearly as many resources to its development, pulling away from the rest of the game in the process. The fact that it became a center-piece for major patches doesn't help, coupled with the multitude of unrelated "carrots" in attempts to entice people to participate don't help much either.

Disclaimer: I'm not excusing PvP or the like from their misgivings either.