Gunbreaker gameplay hope and expectations

[Refrain695]

Not sure I've seen any post speculating on the gameplay of gunbreaker (GUN ?) itself, so here I go.

I'm simply asking what you people expect for this new tank. It can be anything, I just want to kill time while I wait for it.

I'll give my personal list (can be long). Before I begin, let me just say this : I think this expansion is the one where SE tries to create really different and new things. Between the areas and races, all the way to the jobs. I think (and hope) GUN and DNC (if it come as heal) will be very different than the already existing one : melee healer for DNC and... different tank for GUN, leaning toward a DPS style. Why I think that ? Because it's something people ask, if I'm not mistaken, and because we already got 3 tanks and heals that feel sometimes too close to each other. There is no risks to take by creating something different.

So, now my wishes :
First, the most important. Since GUN is one-handed with no off-hand, make it fast. Like SAM for example, with a buff. Either refreshed by a combo, or better, by using one or more of these ammos we heard about. Either way, we need a fast tank, we already got 3 of them that are slow af, as a NIN player, switching to PLD feel like dividing the speed of the game by 2. That alone will make me play GUN a lot, probably even as main.

After that, what I wish the most is for GUN to have a rotation that is more complex than other tanks. Ammo management looks like a good idea already, I hope there is one that give/refresh a buff (speed plz), one that put a DoT if it's not on another combo already, probably one for mitigation, one or more for a big damage cd that you have to plan and use on cooldown (Tempetus Est, the cross-shaped attack ?), and other used as dump (simple explosive slash ?).

Feel free to answer my expectations, give yours or ignore my post ! (or everything ?)

This is literally how DRK plays my friend. Try it out! I suppose I will provide my opinions as well so:
I believe ALL tanks should have an equally "complex" rotation first of all, but I do agree that the rotation should feel more intuitive similar to current DPS design, not "press this button to mitigate". This post sounds like you primarily play DPS and are new to tanking, and if so welcome! It's neat here. But there has been a bit of a drought when it comes to tank design making them feel homogenized, so I enjoy reading forums like this to display ideas. Excited to see how the expac shakes things up.

[Kalise]

Honestly, my only hope is they don't make GUN's combos RNG like with MCH.

Like, MCH is kind of fun, but man is it lame when you're stuck spamming Split Shot because "50% chance trolololo" to get your combo effects when you don't have ammo...

Also, on that note, I hope that Ammo isn't just objectively better to use for certain skills (Like for MCH. It boosts most skills by 30 potency. But when used on your combo skills to ensure a proc you get 140/180 potency over using another Split Shot from using a combo'd Slug Shot/Clean Shot in addition to that bonus potency on the skill that consumes the ammo)

Finally, I kind of hope that ammo is plentiful. MCH/ARC both irk me in how their resources are only generated by periodic CD's (Reload/Quick Reload and Aetherflow/Dissipate) with nothing in between. Which results in this awkward ebb and flow, where at the start of a fight everything is cool and you have a bunch of resources to use! Then it's all on CD and you're just spamming fillers until your CD's rotate back... MCH has it better due to having a 30s/15s CD on Reload/Quick Reload but even so it can feel awkward (Especially as QR doesn't even guarantee you a full 123 combo...). It also makes certain skills feel useless, like niche Aetherflow skills are so unappealing when you're blowing your 1 minute CD to have access to the resources to use them so if you're not using the clear best skills it feels so bad...

So yeah... Lots of ammo please. Especially if we're trying to get the feeling from Squall in VIII where the trigger was available for every attack.

[Burningskull]

Honestly, my only hope is they don't make GUN's combos RNG like with MCH.

Like, MCH is kind of fun, but man is it lame when you're stuck spamming Split Shot because "50% chance trolololo" to get your combo effects when you don't have ammo...

Also, on that note, I hope that Ammo isn't just objectively better to use for certain skills (Like for MCH. It boosts most skills by 30 potency. But when used on your combo skills to ensure a proc you get 140/180 potency over using another Split Shot from using a combo'd Slug Shot/Clean Shot in addition to that bonus potency on the skill that consumes the ammo)

Finally, I kind of hope that ammo is plentiful. MCH/ARC both irk me in how their resources are only generated by periodic CD's (Reload/Quick Reload and Aetherflow/Dissipate) with nothing in between. Which results in this awkward ebb and flow, where at the start of a fight everything is cool and you have a bunch of resources to use! Then it's all on CD and you're just spamming fillers until your CD's rotate back... MCH has it better due to having a 30s/15s CD on Reload/Quick Reload but even so it can feel awkward (Especially as QR doesn't even guarantee you a full 123 combo...). It also makes certain skills feel useless, like niche Aetherflow skills are so unappealing when you're blowing your 1 minute CD to have access to the resources to use them so if you're not using the clear best skills it feels so bad...

So yeah... Lots of ammo please. Especially if we're trying to get the feeling from Squall in VIII where the trigger was available for every attack.

Maybe we'll get lucky and in the rework for MCH, cause c'mon they've got to be reworking it, Your combos will be 100% and ammo will just be used to... use oGCDs? Or something? I don't know I don't find the ammo system all that interesting. Here's hoping GNB's ammo system is interesting.

[Kalise]

Maybe we'll get lucky and in the rework for MCH, cause c'mon they've got to be reworking it, Your combos will be 100% and ammo will just be used to... use oGCDs? Or something? I don't know I don't find the ammo system all that interesting. Here's hoping GNB's ammo system is interesting.

I assume MCH is getting a rework, I believe that's why they recently got a buff to the potency provided by ammo - To tide them over until 5.0 with extra DPS to make them more appealing to bring to parties.

How much it'll adjust the ammo system... Who knows.

I mean, there's nothing particularly wrong about ammo buffing skills potency. My qualms are mostly just about the combo's being tied to 100% rate only with ammo there... But I guess at the same time, having ammo just be a 30 potency buff to the skill that uses them is a bit lame...

Ehh...

On a tangent...

What could be cool for GUN is if their ammo worked similarly to:

Weiss' rapier, which held different elements in each chamber.

So, something like you could load different elemental ammo and get some different effects on skills.

[Meta-Flare]

No dots, and no positionals.

[Izsha]

Positionals are a non starter.

I'd guess the ammo aspect will play more like aetherflow.

Drk can maintain it's fast paced resource management with lost of resource coming in and lots going out in a high paced way.

Gun will be a more methodical resource user with a steady inflow of ammo to burst or meter out in a more controlled way.

War will retain its bursty release-the-beast nature with more focus on hp abilities and (hopefully) a new angle like warcries for party support instead of shake it off for that barbarian feel.

Pld will mostly keep its form intact. Protective abilities. Smidge more holy magic. Focus on shield based abilities and rotating physical/holy magic for rotation.

Everyone stays unique. Everyone maintains their character. My hope anyway. Gun provides a new metered out resource style to shake things up.

[Lyth]

At the very least, I hope that Gunblade turns out to be an adequate WAR replacement. I'm tired of having a mandatory WAR in every. single. group. for the past five years. I have zero interest in another expansion of the same.

Also, giving WAR even more party support on top of everything else that they already have is a recipe for disaster. We should be cutting back on their features, not adding to them, so that other tanks actually have a chance to grow, evolve, and shine. Just bench them for the next expansion or two. Please.

[Kaedan]

At the very least, I hope that Gunblade turns out to be an adequate WAR replacement. I'm tired of having a mandatory WAR in every. single. group. for the past five years. I have zero interest in another expansion of the same.

Also, giving WAR even more party support on top of everything else that they already have is a recipe for disaster. We should be cutting back on their features, not adding to them, so that other tanks actually have a chance to grow, evolve, and shine. Just bench them for the next expansion or two. Please.

Even if they did manage to find a way to make GNB equal to WAR, it probably wouldn't last long because a bunch of WAR players would likely complain like they have in the past until they're king of the pile again.

[Kalise]

At the very least, I hope that Gunblade turns out to be an adequate WAR replacement. I'm tired of having a mandatory WAR in every. single. group. for the past five years. I have zero interest in another expansion of the same.

Also, giving WAR even more party support on top of everything else that they already have is a recipe for disaster. We should be cutting back on their features, not adding to them, so that other tanks actually have a chance to grow, evolve, and shine. Just bench them for the next expansion or two. Please.

The issue is, even IF GUN became a "Replacement" for WAR... How much would it replace and would it even do anything except make GUN equally as prolific as WAR?

High pull aggro? Wouldn't necessarily make WAR unwanted, since heck, that means better Circle Shirk potential as well as initial threat for adds.

3 minute CD immunity skill akin to Holmgang? Well, now PLD is less favoured because why take PLD for Cover + Hallowed Ground when you can just tank swap between GUN/WAR with short CD immunities.

Slashing debuff? Great, now you don't even have to care about team composition when group splitting is necessary.

AoE Shielding akin to Shake It Off? Again, doesn't make WAR less effective, more AoE shields are good for mitigating damage.

When WAR is favoured because other tanks just don't have the same tools that make them strong, adding in another job that has those same tools won't stop them being strong, it'd just further the divide between the jobs that have those skills and the ones that don't.

[Jandor]

When WAR is favoured because other tanks just don't have the same tools that make them strong, adding in another job that has those same tools won't stop them being strong, it'd just further the divide between the jobs that have those skills and the ones that don't.

Maybe WAR just shouldn't have all those tools?
Maybe putting the best aggro gen, the highest dps, the best invul, the slashing debuff the other tanks need and an AoE party shield all on the one tank is giving them just a little too much?