Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[Anger]

The word “offensive” is used quite a bit, though. And, generally, if one finds something to be offensive, that means usually means that they are offended by it. Don’t be obtuse.

Yes, but it isn't stating "if you're offended" it's stating if something was offensive and: inflicts emotional distress

Example of something offensive that wouldn't inflict emotional distress: I do not like your glam.

Example of something offensive that inflicts emotional distress: berating them, or telling them to play a specific way.

[WaterShield]

What? Have you ever heard of contract and/or civil disputes?


I keep seeing this tossed around like communicative interactions between players is a common thing. When was the last time you walked up to someone gathering from the same nodes you are and started up a conversation? How about they to you? The lack of interactions between players in this game is something that has been ongoing for a long time now, and discussed in detail on these very forums about how to improve it. Guess what though? You know when you run into a random conversation in Limsa, Gridania, or The Reach between two or more players? That's not going to change. But perhaps when you say, "speak to anyone at all", you're just referring to giving players criticism? If so yeah, I would refrain from it. But it does not defeat the purpose for online gaming. We all have our reasons for playing mmos. Just like irl, players prefer to communicate with others they know, and not strangers.

Generally one reads and agrees to a contract before signing. They usually use clear language to make it difficult to misunderstand the intent. Generally the attempt is made to avoid vague contracts because they are unable to be enforced.

Q: When was the last time you walked up to someone gathering from the same nodes you are and started up a conversation? A: Every day
Q: How about they to you? A: Every other day

"Just like irl, players prefer to communicate with others they know, and not strangers."
I enjoy meeting new people... and speaking to them... ergo communicating with strangers.

[WaterShield]

Yes, but it isn't stating "if you're offended" it's stating if something was offensive and: inflicts emotional distress

Offensive things tend to distress me. Emotionally that is. One could even say it inflicts the distress.

[HyoMinPark]

Yes, but it isn't stating "if you're offended" it's stating if something was offensive and: "Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

See my reply: how do you measure this “emotional distress”? There is no concrete value for it. It varies between persons.

And you’re still being obtuse. If someone is going to report something as offensive, it probably means that they were directly offended by it. Why else would they be reporting it? You aren’t allowed to file reports on the behalf of a third party—the GMs will disregard it because it’s not being sent by the person involved.

Example of something offensive that wouldn't inflict emotional distress: I do not like your glam.

Not entirely true. There are some people out there that take something innocuous like this as a personal insult.

Example of something offensive that inflicts emotional distress: berating them, or telling them to play a specific way.

While berating someone is uncalled for, telling a DPS to AOE so that things die faster is not offensive. Telling a healer to contribute instead of standing around for 80% of a fight is not offensive. Telling a tank to utilize cooldowns and/or tank stance if necessary is not offensive.

[Aulainn]

Yes, but it isn't stating "if you're offended" it's stating if something was offensive and: inflicts emotional distress

Example of something offensive that wouldn't inflict emotional distress: I do not like your glam.

Example of something offensive that inflicts emotional distress: berating them, or telling them to play a specific way.

You are quoting Harassment section, offensive things aren't included in that. Now you're just strawmanning.

Offensives things go under:
■Nuisance behaviour
"Nuisance behaviour" means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.

[Anselmet]

Well, how do you treat other people in real life? Do you give them some respect and treat them nicely or are you rude and try to offend them?

You need to reread what I wrote again and reflect because there are some people in life that will get offended even with the best of intentions. I have pissed people off in this game by trying to nicely help them through content. I have pissed a person off by making a joke that the majority of the alliance thought was funny and joined in on. That is the issue. You CANNOT control what people will find offensive and what will upset them. And no amount of claiming, 'well just treat people well and you will have no problems', will change that. As Xtrasweattea posted the vague rules, reread them again and perhaps try to realize why people worry about the demographics in this game that will abuse those vague rules. As I said much earlier in this thread. The rules will only benefit two groups of people: the actual toxic people we want to punish and the overly sensitive that get upset over everything.

[PharisHanasaki]

Q: When was the last time you walked up to someone gathering from the same nodes you are and started up a conversation? A: Every day
Q: How about they to you? A: Every other day

"Just like irl, players prefer to communicate with others they know, and not strangers."
I enjoy meeting new people... and speaking to them... ergo communicating with strangers.

Sure but do you approach them and say 'lmao you look like a f*** noob, git gud'. I sure hope not. Will any 'reasonable' person find a Hello, and casual conversation offensive? Probably not. So what's the issue?

Just yesterday I had a tank that kept harassing a smn because they we dying a lot in Orbonne. They died so many times he started calling him a hoe, a leech, a stupid f** idiot. Began to spam /slap him at every death. I simply said 'It's fine, just follow the party, and put the markers in the far back.' He died maybe once after that. So heres is a clear example of something I hope any reasonable person would find offensive. Did I report him? No. If the smn wants to he free to do so. And the chat will back him up.

[Daralii]

Some of this seems rather scary. Demolition Man comes to mind... "Only express happy, joy-joy feelings towards others or get banned."

But, how am I supposed to correct someone who is playing poorly without causing "emotional distress"? Some people can have emotional turmoil from someone just saying hello. How am I supposed to know if my criticism of someones playing will have that effect? Should I just let them spam Cure 3, run out of mana, continually wipe the party and sit quietly for 90 minutes? How do I confront them? Can Square include an emotional sensitivity tutorial in the game that can teach me? Since it's now required to play the game?

Maybe I should set aside the first 10 minutes of each Duty Finder run to get to know each player. But what if other players get upset that I'm holding the run back for 10 minutes in an attempt to get to know them so I don't offend them accidentally and get banned? What if I get upset that they're upset at me because I'm trying to calibrate my comments to their emotional sensitivities? Do we all get banned?

Should I just not talk? Maybe I just shouldn't play with others. Or maybe not play at all? Would that be better?

I think that's the solution. No one's feelings can get hurt if no one plays.

It's time to shut FFXIV down. There's too much risk of human interaction in this MMO; which studies suggest is a leading cause of emotional distress. Even if you ban people afterwards, the emotional scar is still there. You can't take back the words. Exposing people to that kind of trauma is too dangerous. Shame on you Square Enix. How dare you profit from an online game where people talk to other people and risk having their feelings hurt!

You should be ashamed!

What if a person feels deep emotional distress because that causes them to feel lonely and rejected? But don't speak too much either, because that could easily cause deep emotional distress in someone with socialphobia.

[Anger]

See my reply: how do you measure this “emotional distress”? There is no concrete value for it. It varies between persons.

And you’re still being obtuse. If someone is going to report something as offensive, it probably means that they were directly offended by it. Why else would they be reporting it? You aren’t allowed to file reports on the behalf of a third party—the GMs will disregard it because it’s not being sent by the person involved.



Not entirely true. There are some people out there that take something innocuous like this as a personal insult.



While berating someone is uncalled for, telling a DPS to AOE so that things die faster is not offensive. Telling a healer to contribute instead of standing around for 80% of a fight is not offensive. Telling a tank to utilize cooldowns and/or tank stance if necessary is not offensive.

I don't think it's appropriate to tell DPS to AOE, healers not to stand around, or tanks to use more cool downs. That is compelling people to play a certain way.

[Lium]

There isn't anything that I do that I think is problematic. Like I stated earlier in this thread. I have never been contact by a GM, warned, or punished, for anything, ever.

I am incredibly concerned for the potential of abuse that these vague rules create. I would like to say my piece before things get awful, rather than wait to tell you "I told you so" next year.

Then this is not even crying over spilled milk. This is like throwing a tantrum over a carton of milk that hasn't even been opened yet. Not you specifically, but just the similar sentiments being expressed in this thread. If you have never in your life been contacted, warned or punished by a GM then you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Period. Not now, not tomorrow. Not ever.

Based on what you said, you sound like a nice, respectful player. Nothing will change for you, or anyone like you. That's my point.

Y'all need to calm down. Go outside. Run some laps or something. Meditate, I dunno.