Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

[kikix12]

Sounds like a rule designed to force tanks and healers to tank and heal for people. I'm a human being, not a slave, and personally I reserve the right to leave any duty at any time I desire to for any reason.

Sure. Just hit that "Leave Duty" button and you're in the clear. That's the only correct way to leave a duty just cause you didn't like it. Anything else, like playing horribly to provoke being kicked or standing at the entrance and doing nothing...is not allowed. That is actually one of the better reasons for a similar rule.

That being said, all of these rules are way too wide in scope. I understand that it's impossible to list everything that could possibly be done...but come on. Furthermore many of these rules are completely unnecessary due to different ones. Like, most rules that involve interactions are only scaring players into thinking they can be banned for every single thing, when all you'd need is:

Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive.

This covers EVERYTHING related to social interactions between players that should be there. Everything else covers the exact same things...but not only reasonable.

For example, and this is the absolute worst case scenario:

Other expressions that are offensive to another person.

in reality reads as

Everything that another person doesn't like.

If you have one rule that covers all things that any reasonable person finds offensive, then everything else adds to that only the things that a completely unreasonable person finds offensive. Seeing as the rules are stated on an equal tier (aka the other rules are not examples to make it clearer but are actual rules side by side with that reasonable one), there is absolutely no other logically correct way to consider it granted the context.

In other words, sorry, but according to those rules I could report a GM for saying "Hey, are you there?" to check up on whether I'm not a bot because I know for a fact that there are TONS of people that find it extremely offensive to be spoken to by "Hey..." by anyone, let alone stranger. If your rules are impossible to avoid breaking by your stuff doing their job, you know there's something horribly wrong with them.


Also, I understand that it is not your intention...but I also do not trust people. Let alone people that have very little personal responsibility as your enforcement employees have. And I know for a fact that as a company you'd protect them (even if "you" as a company would disagree with it) unless they went on a frenzied war with majority of the community simply become admitting to your GM abusing his power would cause way bigger outrage.
This problem is only amplified by the fact that such penalties not only compound on each other but cannot be removed by your staff even if they DO admit to making a mistake. And they'll do a LOT of mistakes with rules so wide in scope.

PS: Yes, the way the introduction is phrased, GM's and even Yoshida himself also fall under these guidelines. And yes, the rules use "person" instead of "customer" or "player", meaning that they could be reported and should be banned, going by the rule, for basically anything. When taken literally.

[Spiriel_Basanda]

One thing that struck me as strange in this whole thing(aside from the parts that keep getting repeated over and over for being vague, anyway) was this line

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world

Guess we gotta go to Discord or something if we want to be able to contact our friends to meet up at a Fanfest instead of just sending them a tell with a phone number or something. And no, this one isn't talking about "Other people's personal information", as that's covered in the line under it.

・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission

That one makes sense, the first one just strikes me as really silly, especially considering it's listed under Harassment. Like, that can't be right, can it? I know two couples that met in MMOs and got married, being unable to exchange info would've been an issue for those two couples, to say the least.

[Seraphor]

One thing that struck me as strange in this whole thing(aside from the parts that keep getting repeated over and over for being vague, anyway) was this line

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world

Guess we gotta go to Discord or something if we want to be able to contact our friends to meet up at a Fanfest instead of just sending them a tell with a phone number or something. And no, this one isn't talking about "Other people's personal information", as that's covered in the line under it.

・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission

That one makes sense, the first one just strikes me as really silly, especially considering it's listed under Harassment. Like, that can't be right, can it? I know two couples that met in MMOs and got married, being unable to exchange info would've been an issue for those two couples, to say the least.

I think this is more about being in the context of harassment.
If someone has asked for your details, then give them, 'tell' it to them if you want to be completely safe, they're not going to be reporting you are they?
If they don't want anything to do with you, don't force them to contact you outside of the game.
Or if someone has pressured you into contacting them outside of the game, don't give them your details to placate them.

[Kaedan]

Of course it's the person who gets offended that will report you. And why would the GM think that they weren't really offended? If someone claims to be offended by something, who but that person can know if that's actually the case and how much it affected them? How can you decide if something is "offensive enough"? Everyone have different sensibilities. What might seem offensive to you might not be to someone else, and vice versa. There is no reason to think that GM will arbitrarily draw a line to say how thick of a skin people should have.

Besides, there is absolutly nothing in these rules or the official lodestone announcement that proves your claim. If anything, they literally just said that they will now get involved, and that it was the biggest change in their policy that they ever made. People have the right to express their concerns about the worst case scenario. You brushing that off so easily achieve absolutly nothing and can even be quite detrimental.

The "better be safe than sorry" approach very much applies here.

By reading the logs. They aren't just going to accept any claim of "I was offended" and automatically punish the accused. That's utterly ridiculous.

Yes, the GMs will have objective criteria by which to judge if something reported actually qualifies as "emotionally distressful".

[Hamada]

Good job at killing your game. You would literally be banning 80% of the user base on this. Another thing to add is "Needless to say, everyone will have their own view on a situation, so a GM will continue to provide an objective eye." GMs are unable to do this as is, and unable to take context in consideration currently and has wrongfully suspended people already due to neglecting to have an objective eye with context given, meaning they take action on the literal situation and disregards the context of the situation. Basically they take action like robots, going down a checklist and when things are ticed, take action. This is why people complain about being wrongfully banned/suspended so much off the forum and in the game.

You are empowering people to troll more, and when you speak out on that, you can be suspended under these guidelines. I guess I am just going to leave a dungeon without a word if there is problems, and if that makes the game literally unplayable due to policies like this, I will just unsub and find something else to do with my time. good luck keeping a playerbase with this kind of policy, if you stick with you, you be taking action on insane amount of accounts and be bombarded with an insane amount of calls, much higher then now.

[Nyvara]

Hey at least they got folks to read the rules!

Not sure what the fuss is about, they (the rules) amount to "Don't be a Dbag and be nice to each other" That's not so hard. In fact it's what most of us do each and everyday in RL and the game we call it respect.For those worried about being forced to endure those nasty bad players you are free to join or create a FC that can exclude them.

The only real change is that now the GMs will take a more hands on approach. As a former GM in other games I can tell you there is a lot of investigation before a judgment is made. Players need to supply proof. Logs need to be reviewed, then it's passed down the line for more reviews. etc etc. Most online games are like that. Except WoW which as some of us know really needs these rules!

[ElHeggunte]

The people who police the forums are not the GMs that operate in the live game.

They don’t need to be. Regardless of whether or not they’re physically two different teams, they still operate from a similar or the same set of guidelines. If GMs on the forums have sometimes been doling out seemingly arbitrary punishments based on subjective feelings there’s no reason to believe the in-game team won’t possibly do the same when they’re both basically enforcing the same ruleset.

[Hamada]

Hey at least they got folks to read the rules!

Not sure what the fuss is about, they (the rules) amount to "Don't be a Dbag and be nice to each other" That's not so hard. In fact it's what most of us do each and everyday in RL and the game we call it respect.For those worried about being forced to endure those nasty bad players you are free to join or create a FC that can exclude them.

The only real change is that now the GMs will take a more hands on approach. As a former GM in other games I can tell you there is a lot of investigation before a judgment is made. Players need to supply proof. Logs need to be reviewed, then it's passed down the line for more reviews. etc etc. Most online games are like that. Except WoW which as some of us know really needs these rules!

Alright, new rules mean shut up, and never say anything to anyone. If you even look at someone the wrong way, you are banned!

These changes literally say that I can be reported for having an opinion and disagreeing with someone elses opinion. I'm suddenly incredibly worried about the future of this game.

◆Offensive expression
"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

・Aggressive expressions such as violent language/slander/insult/threat.
・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person
・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion
・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive
・Expressions that compel a playing style
・Expressions that attempt to unilaterally exclude someone from the game or content/community, etc.
(Except when in accordance with rules set by an administrator such as a Free Company Master)
・Expressions that contravene public order and morals
・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

Is that section new? Does it ("that compel a playing style") include comments about 0 dps healers in lvl 70 content (observable by them AFKing and casting a heal here and there) or PUGs causing a wipe by messing up mechanics they've seen countless times?

Edit #1:

No, for the simple reason that "early pulling" is a relative term. It could be said those that spawn a hunt before its max cd has passed are being a nuisance to players who were waiting for an agreed upon time.

Edit #2:

1. Player bots (not to be confused with the common bots with gibberish names that are routinely cleaned up) that have been reported to the STF numerous times but are still active for months or even years. Suggested solutions: A quicker reporting function similar to the one used for RMT chat bots and an update to rules regarding how GMs can act against bots

2. Players have been advertising RMT services in the Cross-World Party Finder but nothing is being done because they conduct communication outside of the game. Suggested solutions: Update the ToS to prohibit such listings or enable blacklisting that completely hides parties (currently, blacklisting only darkens the listing)

Because you will be giving power to a group of people to take action on people/ accounts that can't understand context and take things on a case by case bases. We know this as fast because of GM past track record be it both on these forums and in game. You are basically giving GMs the ok to take action on majority of the player base now. Try offer advice or speak up on bad play? ban now.

Heck I may be banned/suspended for making the posts I just made with this issue (I technically can if you read the forum tos) but this is complete BS and feel this must be heard.

[Deceptus]

Alright, new rules mean shut up, and never say anything to anyone.

Sadly this is exactly the way I interpret it.

I know they're trying to take a stance of "Just don't be a jerk" but so many of these are extremely vague and can be easily manipulated.

[AnimaAnimus]

Sadly this is exactly the way I interpret it.

I know they're trying to take a stance of "Just don't be a jerk" but so many of these are extremely vague and can be easily manipulated.

Also the fact that sometimes in a dungeon you need to type fast at times. Sometimes things may come across as jerky because you cant add a bunch of or something and without tone or body language if you are at all sensitive even the most well meaning comments or advice are going to be taken as "being mean"