Gender locked race?

[Shougun]

Well they both refer to getting their info from the press conference. Here's the transcription of that press conference: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/press_conf_eu_2019

So here's probably the actual question and answer both of them were referring to:

I think a problem with that was that the questioner gave Yoshida an out that made the answer really not give us anything (not saying anything bad on the questioner but it means the answer we received means a bit less). Because the questioner said "or wait for fanfest to hear if it'll be a thing?" Yoshida is just like "wait". Doesn't tell us if it'll be a thing or not, we already had to wait.. and now we still have to wait lol.

I'd actually love to bounce ideas around with you on that if you're game?

Offhand, there are a few things that seem like they might be limitations with FFXIV specifically compared to other MMOs. One is that Final Fantasy has a definite aesthetic to it and plays heavy into the pretty, cute, or awe-inspiring. So while weird/spooky is doable I suspect it would end up balanced with the overall setup so someone could look and immediately pinpoint that the character is in a final fantasy game. Another thing is that within the series, even Ananta are filed under beast tribes rather than humanoids. So in all likelihood weird would remain tied to basically humanoid, although still with wiggle room. Third thing is smaller, but essentially I've noticed that it seems to regarded as a given that any features showing up in FFXIV will be features that showed up in a previous game. Technically they can totally try something new, but it seems more likely they'd stick to the pattern.

The reason I've been going LUNARIANS is not because I think we need humans + funny colors so much as I figured a kind of mystical/alien vibe that was pushed into weirder territory could be really fun! Are there any other final fantasy races you think might lend themselves to weird with a little interpretation, without just sliding into full beast tribe territory?

"No I hate discussion". . . *looks at own post count*.. Damn, you caught me.

For why we don't have beast race, I definitely agree they're not keen on it although I'm not entirely sure why besides perhaps afraid of clip city but then we've got tails, horns, and hair that clip through stuff anyways. In general I think while there might be lore and some fears that push against a beast-like race I feel that if you just put a little water on it they'd break apart like wet tissue paper (like "people hate beastmen" meanwhile Ul'dah is casually harboring some lizard folk lol). So I guess my suggestions even if you tell me to calm down a little bit will still always be a bit weird lol. Although for below I'll try to not ask for a literal lion's mouth :P.

I believe, in line with what you're saying with Lunarians, that SE could do to add a lot of variations without causing too much of a budget increase because the model shapes wont be too far apart (and perhaps some weirder stuff). So if they explode their clan options out (maybe not even call them a clan anymore lol, just a sub-group really - I think we could see a lot more).

With your Lunarian example Yoshida mentioned, and other FF games have already visited, we may see moon. So to see moon people makes sense. Because they're a variation of hyur they wouldn't really cause issues for armor, just need to slap them into lore and hope there are no memory concerns (races don't cause the game to need a restructure of memory).

So to me, I think you could have a lot of fun with the current races while keeping the amount of different shaped/portion gear semi-consistent. Just to be clear I still want weird shapes lol, I'm just going to use current shapes for the below since part of what you asked was trying to tone the beast down and be already FF related.

Void-born Au Ra:

First and my favorite example, Au Ra concept art

For the crazy bones that might clip, I'd say let the long ones clip its no worse than what already happens and for like the smaller 3d scales just "hide" them under armor when logic applies. Besides perhaps the most demon like those faces should be fine for the game too (but some of our masks are pretty scary and NPC are fine, so eh..).

Maybe for lore: Iirc Au Ra relate more to the void than dragons so lets use that for the story. One day a scout group from a reclusive mountain tribe of Au Ra wandering through ancient Allaghan ruins found a device that attracted their attention, giving a sense of calling and feelings that it may be whispering- if only they could hear it better. They took it back to their tribe deep in the mountains, where it soon became a fascination to the whole tribe. Water and food became secondary and the facilities began to fall apart, but the tribe just moved closer and closer till their breath buffeted this strange object. As groups of the tribe's people came back from their missions it became too many for those in the back to see this lovely device. So they began to push. Those distracted from the glory that was became enraged and began to violently squabble back and forth. This broke out into a full on brawl with much bloodshed. Too distracted to look at their feet the blood was defying gravity and moving towards and into the device, beginning to glow a sickly red. After a few days the device had it's fill, it began to hum causing the ruckus to die down. A were few dead but most just badly injured, everyone starving. Here the device violently ripped the core of their mountain homestead from it's place and thrust it into a void much like the one you find in FFXI Limbus.

Once in this dark limbus and after the panic had settled down they began their cursed trapped life, creating a sort of shadow kingdom and kingdom no one knew existed. The time they spent there was strange and didn't move at a pace like ours. Over their generations their offspring began to show signs of the void in their scales. The problem for them is they've reached the edge of attainable space of their little pocket and are now forced to keep strict birthing laws and punish those into the endless abyss who fail to follow. Some have grown accustomed to their little kingdom but others have never stopped trying to get out. Our WoD/WoL will trek into this mountain and begin to peel away the gate that keeps them sealed away. Once we have access to Limbus we will have access to this type of Au Ra (race option) and will help the shadow kingdom in powering bridges to other areas of limbus not known of previously via bridges of light (and suffer a lot of political fallout from those who differ in how the void-born kingdom should continue to exist).

Later lore could reveal the Allahgan were trying to see if they could create/summon a void primal one powered by dark crystals, the facility found had been emergency shutdown (while Allahgan were on top) because the orb began to whisper and temper in usual ways (void-temper). What was found by Au Ra was the device that held a pocket of portable void space created by the Allahgans as a breeding ground for a void primal, that pocket known as Limbus (and the Au Ra therein trapped on one of Limbus's sectors).

A very neat lore point could be finding out they were able to send out a few via a great spell that cost them some of their best mages (which is why they haven't done it again, no one is good enough to do it again yet). This was in advance of your arrival to the city, but they haven't heard back from these sent-forth Au Ra. So you could technically start the game as one and it'd just be on the way through this forced exit of limbus you had a concussion (aetherial concussion, lol) that removed memory of how you came to be (so you didn't remember to go back and help save your people), when you finally make it back in the story there could be a few special dialog lines.

The male Au Ra would be a lot of things added/extended (scales/horns), face options, but the general skeleton shape/model would be the same or at least a scale of the same (just things added onto it)
The female Au Ra might require another race's skeleton with tweaks, to be more like the succubus (maybe even Viera skeleton scaled down slightly and made "plumper")

Mammet Vivi (FFIX), Yuke like:

Ul'dah had a sister city, Sil'dih. (in game spoiler incoming). Tl;dr story is Ul'dah sent a powder, that turned the dead into zombies, to Sil'dih ending it's great reign. Here I suggest that deep within the empire, trapped by the city's own grand populace, there exists some still alive and fighting back. Due to many reasons, including endless attacks from the dead at all times, diseases growing, and the powder's effects mutating, the Sil'dih grew weaker and weaker with no solution in sight. Never to give up they devised a means to never tire and to grow resistant to the harms that came their way, it only cost them their body. The Sil'dih transferred their mind and soul into a very advanced type of mammet, one that would allow them to fend off the dark, the disease, and the tire in their bones.

To keep their minds and soul in place they ALWAYs have some sort of equipment on (they're never naked, you can choose their "undergarment" look). When they wear gear like black mage outfit they will look literally like a type of vivi (with scale of body, eye shapes, and perhaps shadowy wisp customization options).

Through the miner's guild and Ul'dah's work (with our Nanamo leading the way) they uncover one of these advanced mammets who were badly damage, so they appeared like a very advanced broken mammet but we quickly find out they actually house a soul and through some repair were able to receive a message from the mammet (person in this case). Then follows the ardious task of clearing out an entire civilization's population save a few hundred vivis, and with that we could also get an epic rebuild Sil'dih and underground magic housing district .

Keep in mind because they're lallafel souls put inside a mammet that technically the body shape is a bit free to match that of the other races as well (big vivi, little vivi). Also this would probably be one of the easiest races to design besides emoting the eyes which will be very important for emotion lol.

Yuke:

I could come up with a few more clans for races we already have - including Galka like for Roe (tails be back). Also in this thread we all basically came up with Lion-Viera if that isn't a thing then we could make it a clan request lol (or if it is lion then we could come up with the softer feol smoll bunny to compensate the lion-viera).

Esper/Primal born:

Another race idea from other FF but might be a bit unique (and can use some Viera assets)- I think you could pull a Worgen like WoW and make an Esper like Terra Branford. Worgens transform in combat to their true form (werewolf from human). Although I think you could make it always that way too, perhaps even more weird (but interesting?) they have normal skin with their accentuated nails, hair, unique face choices, bit different shaped body (but still pretty "human like"); however, when it rains (or combat, whatever trigger) they show their true colors (literally lol), their limbs accentuated further, their skin color radiates lightly (with a different color), and their hair lifts as if it was high on DBZ sayian power (not exactly but similarly "fuller").

I'm not suggesting they have to be literally primals or whatever btw, for someone who just whipped out their lore book and put on their war face lol.

To be honest these could be like or literally be related to your Lunarian idea.

[KaijinRhada]

Bunnies being too cute? They're mean critters. Have you ever been bit or scratched by one? Just insert some of this into their personalities:



Big Wig, Silver and Woundwort aren't all fluff.

I would laugh if they really did make Viangaa... and Bangaa end up being the males lol.
Would be hilarious to see the April fools joke actually troll folks in the end.

The concept of the green one they designed is actually pretty cute! But on the other hand, I don't need another MMO actually turning April Fools jokes into actual content. I ran away from WoW for a reason (and they did do that).

[Jaywalker]

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I am slowly returning from a nap and totally hyped to look through the points you raised because even a quick skim this looks awesome! I do want to letcha know real fast though, with playable beast races in FFXIV basically I think that equipping gear over the humanoid frame where the gear looks 100% like a beast tribe character (possibly baby/mini if over a lalafell) might be the most effective solution given there's not a lot of variation in beast tribe body types. That said, I'd love if they added dye options and at least a few variations of hypothetical beast gear! Ex. like if it's filling a helmet slot, you have a standard beast head or you could use an alternate beast head option where it is wearing a funny hat. I know people wear vanu heads for example so part of me is wondering if SE could push this option further?

I also did a ridic spiel before but short version is that beast characters tend to use the same face and body models as each other in-game. I figure that maintaining consistency is good for immersion on the one hand, but on the other I also worry excess customization might end up as a wasted resource. For the amount of detail in FFXIV, people might not notice subtle differences in animal features the way they would humanoid features.

Position I'm coming from is like say you have a cat owner. That owner (who has had years of getting used to their pet's specific facial/body features) would be able to pick out their own cat even if you threw it into a sea of identically colored cats. However, if you asked other people they'd probably give you a very frightened look because in their eyes all of these animals look the same. That's the kind of phenomenon I worry might happen for beast folk, if that makes sense?

Anyhow I will be catching up reading your reply in more detail but basically I think we should have a way people who want to run around as beast races can for all intents and purposes, possibly with multiple dye and armor options since those are immediately noticeable. I'm just not sure if putting the option in character creator specifically would be effective for this game.

[frostmagemari]

You do realize FFXIV version 2.0** was not rebuilt from the ground up?

You do realize a very large portion of 1.23b remains today?

You do realize content such as Ishgard, Sea of Clouds, Abalathia's Spine so on so forth was designed by the original 1.0 team?

You do realize its literally still Final Fantasy XIV Online? The lore with which most all XIV related content is drawn from the lore books created by the 1.0 team.

The concepts for the crafting system, gathering system's, gold saucer mini games, character models, zone names, NPC names, Leve quests, "ability to changes classes," all the enemy models, and other concepts are all remnants of version 1.0?



Absolutely, very much absolutely FFXIV 2.0+ was not built from the ground up. 1.0 lives today through 2.0. The only huge changes are the way the developement team handles bugs, and they redid the battle system, and graphics engine to help it run on PS3 so they could rectify the fact they sold version 1.0 on PS3 but never released it.

If version 2.0 was a completely new game built from the ground up they would have spent more time trying to save 1.0 character data to version 2.0 than would be worthwhile. Instead they ensured they would save and retain version 1.0 characters, and did so rather easily because... its basically the same game.

1.0 failed due to significant incompatibility of players computers, the severe bugs, and lack of content. Yoshida took version 1.0 and then added content and changed the battle system not only in version 1.0 but also in 2.0 again, and then keeps changing smaller elements of it like job gauges and actions potencies "role abilities" so on so forth.

People really need to get it out of their head that 1.0 is completely gone and 2.0 is a brand new game. There is much much much more to a game than just its name and development team.







Back on topic....

I anticipate male viera will be released. In the original Au Ra video, they didnt showcase the Xaela. People didnt immediately jump to the conclusion that Au Ra would be locked to a single version, unlike the other races. That I can recall anyway.

Wait till tokyo. If Male Viera isnt showcased then, thats when you can start to really worry.

And yet.. nothing actually operates as 1.0 did.. Ideas and concepts are not hold overs from 1.0, systems and mechanics are hold overs from a previous version.. to which there is none. I was in 1.0 and then in the beta for 2.0. The two games are so dissimilar , they are effectively completely different games.
If it didn't have to get rebuilt from effectively the ground up, they wouldn't have taken the game down for more than a year to remake the game and have it come out as something that feels, plays and looks as something different.

[Iscah]

Iirc Au Ra relate more to the void than dragons

They don't relate to either - pending any future revelations, at least.

It might have been an inspiration for their design, but as far as we know, within the story they're simply a humanoid race with some features that make them look a bit like voidsent or dragons.

And yet.. nothing actually operates as 1.0 did.. Ideas and concepts are not hold overs from 1.0, systems and mechanics are hold overs from a previous version.. to which there is none. I was in 1.0 and then in the beta for 2.0. The two games are so dissimilar , they are effectively completely different games.
If it didn't have to get rebuilt from effectively the ground up, they wouldn't have taken the game down for more than a year to remake the game and have it come out as something that feels, plays and looks as something different.

As I understand it, a lot of things got changed and rebuilt, but over the base structure of 1.0's programming to cut down on time and development costs. This legacy code and their "short-term time-saving" methods of rebuilding the game have led to long-term programming issues that they have to work around.

[MorbolvampireQueen6]

They don't relate to either - pending any future revelations, at least.

It might have been an inspiration for their design, but as far as we know, within the story they're simply a humanoid race with some features that make them look a bit like voidsent or dragons.





As I understand it, a lot of things got changed and rebuilt, but over the base structure of 1.0's programming to cut down on time and development costs. This legacy code and their "short-term time-saving" methods of rebuilding the game have led to long-term programming issues that they have to work around.

Idk about others but im a voidsent

[Shougun]

I am slowly returning from a nap and totally hyped to look through the points you raised because even a quick skim this looks awesome! I do want to letcha know real fast though, with playable beast races in FFXIV basically I think that equipping gear over the humanoid frame where the gear looks 100% like a beast tribe character (possibly baby/mini if over a lalafell) might be the most effective solution given there's not a lot of variation in beast tribe body types. That said, I'd love if they added dye options and at least a few variations of hypothetical beast gear! Ex. like if it's filling a helmet slot, you have a standard beast head or you could use an alternate beast head option where it is wearing a funny hat. I know people wear vanu heads for example so part of me is wondering if SE could push this option further?

I also did a ridic spiel before but short version is that beast characters tend to use the same face and body models as each other in-game. I figure that maintaining consistency is good for immersion on the one hand, but on the other I also worry excess customization might end up as a wasted resource. For the amount of detail in FFXIV, people might not notice subtle differences in animal features the way they would humanoid features.

Position I'm coming from is like say you have a cat owner. That owner (who has had years of getting used to their pet's specific facial/body features) would be able to pick out their own cat even if you threw it into a sea of identically colored cats. However, if you asked other people they'd probably give you a very frightened look because in their eyes all of these animals look the same. That's the kind of phenomenon I worry might happen for beast folk, if that makes sense?

Anyhow I will be catching up reading your reply in more detail but basically I think we should have a way people who want to run around as beast races can for all intents and purposes, possibly with multiple dye and armor options since those are immediately noticeable. I'm just not sure if putting the option in character creator specifically would be effective for this game.

One concept I thought might take the beastman issue out for good, while giving SE lots of control of restrictions and lowering barrier to entry (lore issues/etc), is to introduce a Majora mask shop right in the city and throw a few kids around in these costumes. Majora Mask for those who don't know is a great Legend of Zelda game where Link puts on mask and inhabits that spirit/concept for a while (may be taken off to return to normal), the whole spirit thing doesn't need to be in FFXIV but a basic concept would be a Majora Mask is a very powerful glamour (and in the case of Zelda game, gives some powers).

The unique part of a masked costume like this being is your gear (some restrictions may apply) could appear over it, unlike if you appear as a grand company leader you can't undress them .

In this way they could make a mask for the wolf race for example, but you're not a beastman. Depending on how off Viera this gets, may need a new thread though lol. I feel less guilty if we can keep Viera in the topic but if I make the next few posts without Viera in it I'm going feel like a naughty boy soon haha.

They don't relate to either - pending any future revelations, at least.

Thank you, I wasn't 100% sure which is why I even left that "if i got it right" lol. Luckily the fact they are or not related to void sent doesn't affect the rest of the idea. They could still be stuck in Limbus and be imbued with voidsent characteristics by inhabiting that space for a long time (thus obtaining the concept art via lore, via separate clan).

Idk about others but im a voidsent

^

Lol I was thinking new thread too. You mind if I include quotes for your contributions to convo so far for organizational purposes/so if other people want in they have context? Can link you when I have it up.

Thanks for asking and definitely don't worry about it, have fun quoting lol. Just hopefully don't say I said things I didn't say haha ("shougun says tanks are healers" me: "I sad now").

[Jaywalker]

Depending on how off Viera this gets, may need a new thread though lol. I feel less guilty if we can keep Viera in the topic but if I make the next few posts without Viera in it I'm going feel like a naughty boy soon haha.

Lol I was thinking new thread too. You mind if I include quotes for your contributions to convo so far for organizational purposes/so if other people want in they have context? Can link you when I have it up.

[Hunky]

These are the same people who will be just as much up in arms if Viera isn't what they personally want or expect. They say they want male viera, but they each want specific versions of male Viera and will be just as upset if it's not their version than if they got something that isn't even Viera.

Exactly! We might just get male Viera, but it won't be what we're expecting or hoping for.

I think it's safe to say that most people are expecting male Viera to be the male equivalent of what female Viera are now. We're expecting handsome, tall, muscular bunny men. Like below.

But we're probably going to end up with something like this

All they have to do is slap the name "male Viera" on it and it's done.

Throughout this thread, Shippuu has made many good points. And that old quote from Yoshida about potentially creating a separate male counterpart to Viera shows that he is still open to implementing gender-locked races into the game.

Consider all the evidence:

1. Yoshida's old quote about creating a male counterpart race to Viera because "male rabbits might be kinda weird". Again, this goes back to this old-fashioned, close-minded idea of women equaling cute and sexy, and men equaling brutish and savage. Many Asian mmos do this, and FFXIV was one of them at some point. Just because they unlocked male Miqo'te, female Roegadyn, and female Highlander, doesn't mean they're going to not genderlock a race in the future. This can totally happen again.

2. Genderlocking is still happening in the game. Just recently, Alma and Ramza's hairstyles were genderlocked. Clearly the team still has this mentality of "this is for boys" and "this is for girls". Bunny ears are for girls, and bestial facial features are for boys.

3. Female Viera were presented as "The Viera Race" with no male in sight. If they didn't mention genderlocking, it's probably because they're well aware of the potential backlash.

4. The lore created for male Viera is the same kind of lore that was created for the previously unplayable male Miqo'te. It's as if they were preparing us to not expect males.

5. Yoshida danced around questions regarding male Viera. Instead of replying with, "We are going to include male Viera; they're just not ready yet," he simply said, "There's still Tokyo Fanfest." And Yoshi is usually good about telling us when something isn't ready.

6. In the Game Watch interview, when asked about male Viera, Yoshida suggested that players go back and read the lore in the game (the same lore that's hellbent on emphasizing the point on how incredibly rare males are).

Here are some lore screenshots.

"In other words, tread not the wood with hopes of finding a male Viera, for you will be met with naught but disappointment...or worse, death."

"The male lives alone and dies alone."

"I spent many a moon in the Desert Sapphire, and while I saw all manner of wondrous creatures, not once did I lay mine eyes upon a male Viera, nor did I hear of one living in the city. They simply do not exist to us."

Either we're getting trolled, or they're really trying to beat the idea into our heads that male Viera is not going to happen. This is the same lore that Yoshida told us to refer to when asked about male Viera.

7. The blue leaker's information has been extremely accurate. And according to the leaker, we are getting two new races. Considering that creating a new race takes a lot of time and energy, it's unlikely that we are getting two new races (unless they're genderlocked, cutting the time and energy needed in half). Remember, Yoshida himself said they would consider creating a male counterpart to Viera. So if we're getting a lion-like race, it's probably going to be Rev, Revgaji, or Ronso. That would be the male counterpart Yoshi was talking about. And considering that Ivalice might be one of the settings of the game, Rev/Revgaji might just be that male counterpart race.

Now, I truly, really, very much hope that I am wrong, and that we do get amazing, handsome, bunny men that are truly the male equivalent of the current female Viera.

But I'm scared to get my hopes up. When you have this much evidence stacked against you, getting your hopes up is a bad idea.

And this sucks because the female Viera are absolutely gorgeous. For anyone who wants to play an attractive female character, they're a dream. I just wish males were given a chance to have the same kind of sex appeal. But instead, we're probably going to end up with a bestial male counterpart. The best-case scenario is we get two races that are both not gender-locked: Viera and a bestial race. Let the bestial race fans get a chance to play as a bestial race, and let the rest of us who want to play as a drop-dead gorgeous bunny person get a chance too. But again, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

[Ramesses]

Incredible read... 72 pages and counting.