Revelations from Keynote II

[YianKutku]

Oh, yeah, and our oft-forgotten magitek armor "Maggie" arguably has a soul too.

As far as I can tell, though, self-awareness/self-determination and having a soul seems to be separate things in FFXIV.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Alpha. He was totally self-aware and could do plenty of things against and apart from his created purpose, but it was only at the end of the Omega raid series that the Echo works on Alpha, which Cid speculates is because Alpha has grown a soul just then.

We never did "hear" Maggie through the Echo, but that could be because her story is "done" for now. (And possibly because the lore team hadn't come up with that piece of lore about souls at the time.)

[Anonymoose]

AFAIR, Maggie had a mammet core; mammets have soulkin quasi-souls.

[Lauront]

I can't help but find it a bit curious that Varis is absent from the Shadowbringers art, nor was he noted as being a major player in the expansion.

I'm wondering if Solus's words that he probably wouldn't see him again are an implication that the Ascians intend to get rid of him. It would be simple enough for them to have Elidibus replace him when he's already ceded control of the imperial armies to him.

I thought about that but equally, Gaius is also absent, as are many other key figures. Part of why I think he is, is because I don't believe the Garlean conflict is going to remain the main issue for too long - it may come to the fore when venturing to Dalmasca, but I think it'll fade into the background fast, to give way to the issue of the "twin dooms". Solus's words, and Varis's performance at the second half of the meeting, do make me think he could have been removed from the equation, but at the same time it could just be Solus expressing confidence in Elidibus's plan, so much so that he is no longer required on the Source.

It's absolutely time travel. I don't see how people can support a "we're going to the First!" interpretation with all the hints that Yoshida's been dropping. Specifically, we're going into an apocalyptic future, but also trying to avert it... this will probably mean splitting the timeline, which will justify us being able to go back to visit the alt-future zones even after we've prevented the calamity/flood of light.

They're not mutually exclusive possibilities, though. Also, how much sense does it make to go to the future? If anything, the time travel will be to the past, or it will involve someone from the future coming to the present. The situation on the First may be so dire that it requires it. It could also explain the aged down Minfilia, but the fact that she retains the Word of the Mother aspect to her is in need of further explanation. Unless something else is at play.

I'm pleasantly surprised that they've thus far managed to avoid disclosing any information that really spoils what's going to actually happen at the end of the 4.5 MSQ. There's really only fuel for theories at this point.



There's been multiple instances of non-Echo related soul shenanigans in side quests, such as with Genbu and Soroban in the Four Lords quests and Lalai and Shatotto in the SB BLM quests. You could probably consider what happened with Nidhogg and Estinien a similar case.

It seems like anyone who's powerful enough and has the know-how can potentially linger after the loss of their physical body.

To add to this, we don't even know whether she has it or not - she might. She's an expert on aetheric transfers, though, and probably could figure out how to enter a currently empty body. I think the scene is fairly clear-cut in what is going on (as always, there's potential for misdirection) - scepticism is fine, but simply because we don't know how it's occurring doesn't mean that it's not. The Echo allows for the soul to endure and persist even when untethered from a body, and more besides that. Simple soul transference between bodies is an easier affair, by all appearances.

i think we kill Elidibus as well as Solus releases a light aspected Black rose killing both the Alliance and Garlean main forces and this tips the balance on the source within the maelstrom of death we plead to Hydalen for a way to stop it and we get sent to the source to fetch Minifilia and bring her back but she refuses to leave the 1st to their own suffering and to combat the light there we become the WoD

The problem with that hypothesis is that Solus is interested in resurrecting Zodiark, not destroying a world that the Ascians want to rejoin, through a flood of light. If anything, I think Solus may want to tip the balance back to darkness, but it ultimately depends on how much chaos it would even cause at this point on the First - of course, he'll probably do his utmost. I think there is a good chance that the "absorption" of Light Minfilia is effecting is seeping into the Source and not just into Hydaelyn, meaning both worlds are on the brink. The presence of the Light-aspected beings is as yet unexplained, in terms of their nature, origin, motives etc - maybe they will mirror Voidsent. Elidibus's fate is as yet to be determined. Whilst they may kill him off permanently, I think it's too soon, and hinges heavily on many other aspects of the plot. This soon, I'd consider it to be a waste. I think he'll just leave Zenos's body, and take on another to accomplish his revised agenda. Alternatively, the WoL could "die" and at this point be whisked away for an audience before Zodiark. The soul could return to the body thereafter. There's a lot of variables involved here, including the things I mentioned regarding the true nature of the crystals, so we're stuck with guesswork for now.

I think there is also another issue with this. The lore appears to suggest two methods of spreading light or darkness: either championing one of the two crystals (we know Hydaelyn grants the BoL, but it's unclear whether Zodiark is in a position to grant an equivalent to the Overlords and any other champions of his), or engaging in actions which are aligned to one or the other (spreading chaos or order, as far as I can tell.) Now, the WoL whilst bearing Hydaelyn's blessing spreads light, and I think this is irrespective of what actions he takes. So, I think to become the WoD in such a manner it will be necessary to gain Zodiark's blessing, because I believe the alternative is that you'd have to drop the BoL and engage in actions conducive to spreading chaos, like the Ascians (or I guess the First's WoDs planned to) do. At least based on our present state of knowledge, this is how I see things.

Arbert may appear to be a confounding factor here, but my understanding is he does not bear the BoL as the WoD, and on top of this he and the others were working with Elidibus anyway. Bearing the Blessing of Darkness may be what makes our WoD more effective than him.

We haven't seen any other Ascian hosts looking "corrupted" like that though, so it's more likely to be unrelated and (if it is indeed G'raha) attributable to the Crystal Tower's influence.

Yes, the corruption is probably unrelated to any possession, as such; I brought it up because it explains the odd appearance and such divergences as there are with G'raha's known appearance. It could also be attributed to a certain dark crystal using him as a vessel through his Emissary.

There are many very good reasons as to why an Ascian would want him as a host, mainly involving the Crystal Tower. Although it would need some modifications to allow for a sustained portal to another world (or even timeline), an Ascian would be precisely the sort of individual to know how to accomplish this. They were enmeshed in the Allagan Empire as one of their projects, so they would no doubt be aware of the potential uses the tower could be put to, alongside whatever other uses an individual of Allagan blood could have.

Conversely, he may become relevant just due to that reason anyway, even with no possession, but I think if he is the missing link with the mysterious, echoing voice, there may well be some connection to the Crystal of Darkness, based on how these echoes began - the unleashing of the energies in the House of the Crooked Coin. I don't think the auri NPC's comment on the sliver of darkness she now sensed in the WoL was accidental, and in my mind, this could have been the opening of a channel of communication with Zodiark, or a servant of his. I think you're right that the robes have an Allagan flair to them, and particularly a resemblance to the Dreadwyrm hood of healing, so I will grant that it's not particularly decisive, but I think it's certainly a promising route they could explore if they wanted to via Ascian possession, and maybe take it even further and use him as a vessel for the darkness equivalent of the Word of the Mother, the closest to which at the moment is Elidibus.

For the time being the only certain thing is that they've gone to some effort to obscure his appearance and he has undergone some really puzzling mutations. The Crystal Tower does seem like an excellent prop for any time or world travel that might come into it, albeit it'll need something to power this. Maybe a new use for the Heart of Sabik?

[Kalise]

Alternatively, the WoL could "die" and at this point be whisked away for an audience before Zodiark.

Given the level of sass the WoL has shown throughout SB, I think it'd be hilarious to go meet big daddy Zodiark.

Just think of how that particular conversation will go! xD

[Lauront]

I firmly expect more than a few nods or head shakes.

Also...

#GunbreakerHype

Wonder where it's gonna sit in terms of Tank balance.

An early answer.

[ShinShimon]

The thing makes me doubt time travel is involved is the fact that we're inevitably going to have to return to all of the different expansion zones for the post-5.0 MSQ. What reason would we have to return to a bad future if things have been patched up?

On the flipside, if we're going to the First to curb the flood of light, there's all sorts of reasons we could have for going back over there once matters have been seemingly resolved.

We'll probably end up forking the timelines, leaving the original hellhole future intact while we create a different one for ourselves. Whatever time machine BS we used to get to the hellhole future will stay intact, along with that timeline, even after we finish the SH main quest.

[ObsidianFire]

I'd just like to point out that we know very, very, very little of what Ilsabard and Garlemald in particular are like. We do know that Garlemald is in a very inhospitable region. We don't have that great an idea about what makes it inhospitable, except that since it's so far north, it's climate is likely like that of Siberia. The FFXIV team could do pretty much anything with Ilsabard and it wouldn't contradict what we know of the continent. I'm kinda wondering if the new raid and the zones we haven't seen yet are in Ilsabard and the team just doesn't want to spoil that yet.

As it is, Ilsabard is huge. It's the clouded-over center part of the map and is at least as big as Othard is if not bigger. Thavinir is also an option for locations as well. There's plenty of space for the FFXIV team to fit in six zones on the preexisting world map with room to spare if they would just lift the cloud cover.

[Lauront]

Well, my thoughts are that they have already revealed 3 zones. One of these is near Dalmasca, and the other two, although potentially in Ilsabard, may well lie within its fringes. Orbonne nudged heavily in Dalmasca's direction, so that will probably occupy a zone or two, as would Thavnair if we went there. It'd be an opportune time to go there, as it's not far from Dalmasca and it may become treacherous to access Ilsabard through other avenues. Amh Araeng had a pretty unique look to it, with those large natural crystalline walls, so I can see why some may get the impression that it could be at the epicentre of a flood of light.

So, I'm leaning to the view that they're reserving most of Ilsabard and a perhaps few other zones (e.g. Sharlayan) for 6.0, with the New World coming in 7.0, perhaps departing from Sharlayan.

The new raid may well be in Ilsabard, and there is also that giant figure on the map, which some think could be used as a XIV interpretation of the Giant of Babil. It's a question of how much of Ilsabard will we see.

The prospect of world hopping and/or time travel, and lack of any clear resemblance to existing areas, are proving to be real confounding factors here.

[Cilia]

That's apparently due to the "mammet core" we installed in her - however they're supposed to work.

AFAIR, Maggie had a mammet core; mammets have soulkin quasi-souls.

Ah yeah, I did forget the "quasi-soul." That makes things potentially easier.

As far as I can tell, though, self-awareness/self-determination and having a soul seems to be separate things in FFXIV.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Alpha. He was totally self-aware and could do plenty of things against and apart from his created purpose, but it was only at the end of the Omega raid series that the Echo works on Alpha, which Cid speculates is because Alpha has grown a soul just then.

We never did "hear" Maggie through the Echo, but that could be because her story is "done" for now. (And possibly because the lore team hadn't come up with that piece of lore about souls at the time.)

Alpha never really does anything outside his prime directive until after the defeat of Omega-M/F. He certainly went above and beyond the scope for which he was intended, but until then he just got us to fight Omega's test subjects and then Omega itself, which is the entire reason he was created. Going on a journey was the first independent thing he willed himself to do outside of his intended purpose.

Might be why we can't Echo-talk with mammets - they have some degree of intelligence, but no real will of their own. Except maybe Vivi.

[KageTokage]

We'll probably end up forking the timelines, leaving the original hellhole future intact while we create a different one for ourselves. Whatever time machine BS we used to get to the hellhole future will stay intact, along with that timeline, even after we finish the SH main quest.

If we create a timeline where the future is fine, we would still have no logical reason to return to the bad timeline for future MSQ purposes.

It's things like this that make me really dubious about the inclusion of time travel. It usually works fine when the plot is completely written around it, such as in Chrono Trigger, but when it's suddenly introduced into a setting as a major plot point things can get messy. Not to mention that whole Alexander questline suggested that XIV operates under the "stable time loop" principle, meaning that an attempt to change the future will actually end up causing the future to happen...though that may explain why they keep going on about how fate cannot be changed (Such in the new year's message) or embracing fate (As Y'shtola/Matoya said in the trailer).