I'm thinking Dark Knight's rework will be more extensive than I initially thought.

[Rollout]

With the reveal of Gunbreaker and the small bits of information we've been given about the class, it sounds like it's magicked ammunition system will work similarly to Dark Knight's Dark Arts, but probably with multiple charges and on a cooldown, rather than just spamming.

If that's the case, then I imagine they'll be changing Dark Knight extensively so that it perhaps doesn't even use Dark Arts anymore, since it would feel quite samey. Perhaps they'll be putting a greater focus on Darkside instead?

[Rongway]

With the reveal of Gunbreaker and the small bits of information we've been given about the class, it sounds like it's magicked ammunition system will work similarly to Dark Knight's Dark Arts, but probably with multiple charges and on a cooldown, rather than just spamming.

The Gunbreaker slide implies the ammo doubles as an Aetherflow mechanic, so not really the same.

[Gemina]

I'm predicting that it will be quite extensive for sure. Things like Dark Passenger not only having a CD to limit its use but also an MP cost, and having to double weave because abilities are tied to dark arts along with weapon skills really needs to be remedied. We were made to understand (or go along with anyway) that major reworks cannot be done mid expansion, so the expectations with DRK are very high. And while I would normally advise against this to reduce disappointment, I feel this time around it is well warranted. SE NEEDS to deliver, or it is going to be bad.

As far as dark arts goes, we can only speculate. But I personally would not mind having to relearn how to play the job as a result of an extensive rework to DA. I know DRKs trademark ability of sacrificing HP to boost damage isn't really plausible in FFXIV as a tank. If it was a DPS, this would not be a problem. As such, I've always wanted DA to work similar to how Darkside used to work, and it is basically a buff you can activate and deactivate at will based on your current MP. Instead of being a constant drain though, you consume the MP with every offensive action you take, excluding blood abilities/weaponskills. These abilities should not be affected by DA at all, that way they can still be used when MP is low to their full effect.

Darkside, for all intent and purposes can just be eliminated and just give that to DRKs as their base damage and just allow them to choose whether or not to be in Grit. I believe these changes would fix a lot of issues with current DRK without tossing us on a steep learning curve to get back up to speed. These are just suggestions of course, but it is based off of feed back from what I read around here, reddit, and blogs. Hopefully the devs will do the same when determining how to rebuild DRK for 5.0.

[Jandor]

As far as dark arts goes, we can only speculate. But I personally would not mind having to relearn how to play the job as a result of an extensive rework to DA. I know DRKs trademark ability of sacrificing HP to boost damage isn't really plausible in FFXIV as a tank. If it was a DPS, this would not be a problem.

They could sort of do HP sacrifice on DRK tank.

Whenever you steal HP from an enemy it could duplicate the same amount in a job gauge, you could then use that stolen HP to boost damage or add special effects to skills.

It's not quite the classic 'cast from HP' but I think it would feel pretty good and fit thematically. The more HP you steal from enemies, the higher you can keep your own HP, the more you can boost your damage, boosted damage leads to stealing more HP from enemies, keeping your own HP topped up even more efficiently, round and round.

[Kalise]

I know DRKs trademark ability of sacrificing HP to boost damage isn't really plausible in FFXIV as a tank.

Why not?

1) Sac health
2) Gain Shield
3) Turn all forms of healing into pseudo shield as a result
4) ?????
5) Profit

[Shurrikhan]

I know DRKs trademark ability of sacrificing HP to boost damage isn't really plausible in FFXIV as a tank. If it was a DPS, this would not be a problem.

Quite the opposite. A DPS would be less plausible, as it would just turn into either an overpowered DPS who requires constant HoTs or a merely inconvenient (and thereby slightly underpowered) DPS.

A tank at least has relevant, cohesive compromise. That said, the logical purchase for one's HP would be defense, allowing you to spend HP during damage lulls to take less damage during the spikes to follow, even if damage would at least fit into what used to be a DRK tank mechanic (Choice between Damage / Damage + Self-healing / Mitigation).

[Gemina]

Quite the opposite. A DPS would be less plausible, as it would just turn into either an overpowered DPS who requires constant HoTs or a merely inconvenient (and thereby slightly underpowered) DPS.

A tank at least has relevant, cohesive compromise. That said, the logical purchase for one's HP would be defense, allowing you to spend HP during damage lulls to take less damage during the spikes to follow, even if damage would at least fit into what used to be a DRK tank mechanic (Choice between Damage / Damage + Self-healing / Mitigation).

Not the way I was thinking about it. As a DPS, HoTs wouldn't be able to keep up with the HP they sacrifice, though they would help a DPS DRK keep it going for longer. And sacrificing HP to increase defense isn't how this ability traditionally works. I also don't think it would be well received if it did work that way as the best damage mitigation to this day is killing things faster, not lasting longer against attacks. I will agree though that tanks have more of a compromise to sacrifice HP, but I think healers would still have a problem with it. It will just make the DRK feel squishy to them.

[Izsha]

Drks "thing" has always been about resource management, specifically mp. Drk will most certainly be drastically reworked, but I would posit it is because of the tp/mp consolidation, not gunbreaker. If drk is to stay as the high input high output resource manager, they will have to do a lot more with the gauge and less with the tp/mp combo bar, or something else entirely new to give the constant resource flow feeling it has centered around since its release. Gunbreaker can be more akin to smn managing a limited, time based resource while drk manages a constantly fluctuating highly dynamic resource. That would be fine with me for identity.

[Seraphor]

I think they missed a trick with DRKs HP sacrifice mechanic.

Instead of having stances like the other tanks, their default should have been Grit always on, or at least as a trait learned somewhere around level 30-50.
Then, buff their HP up to WAR level.
Finally, have DA cost HP instead of MP.
This way, they're technically always in tank stance, but momentarily trigger DPS stance to charge up their next skill.

People keep saying "but a tank cant spend its HP!" But thats exactly what DPS stance is, sacrificing survivability for increased damage.

[Shurrikhan]

Not the way I was thinking about it. As a DPS, HoTs wouldn't be able to keep up with the HP they sacrifice, though they would help a DPS DRK keep it going for longer.

<Either underpowered or so annoying that healers detest their ever being implemented> it is then.

And sacrificing HP to increase defense isn't how this ability traditionally works.

Nor was it traditionally in an MMO with multiple other competing jobs for a near homogenous role that it had to be balanced against.

I also don't think it would be well received if it did work that way as the best damage mitigation to this day is killing things faster, not lasting longer against attacks.

Taking more damage during lulls so that you can better milk HoTs and oGCDs when they would otherwise overheal if used on duration/cooldown as to take less damage during spikes that would otherwise for a GCD of healing allows healers more damage uptime by which to kill things faster. Balancing a tank's (t)dps around needing to sacrifice its HP does not.

I will agree though that tanks have more of a compromise to sacrifice HP, but I think healers would still have a problem with it. It will just make the DRK feel squishy to them.

By being less squishy when it matters? More so than a DPS whose self-inflicted damage is literally too great to be kept alive by HoTs alone?