SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Alucard135]

IS THIS IXION WEATHER?

[SenorPatty]

Copyright takedown...extrapolated battle logs on a third party website?


You have better chance of asking SE to take out ingame battle logs first. At least you can push Yoshi's arbitrary "player safe space" buttons.

[Tsukino]

This type of situation or problem is (almost) as old as MMOs.

The designers and the vast majority of players are against using outside tools and see them as a form of cheating. They are completely against using them to rank or judge people based on their playing history, because the game is supposed to be cooperative and not exclusionary.

But the majority of people who do use these tools (and who make them in the first place) are highly dedicated to the game. They eat, breathe, and sleep the game, they create fan art and videos, they contribute to all players in the form of guides and forum posts containing helpful information, and at the end of the day they pay a larger portion of the bills by way of buying merchandise and bigger subscriptions.

It's probably unsolvable.

[KaivaC]

edit: Wow, I got baited hard on this too. I'm just...gonna go sit in a corner. Good one, OP.

[Shurrikhan]

I have. If you read what the op said, it is pretty toxic, reeks of poison fumes.

Edit: NVM! Looked at op's logs, he cant be serious.

Also...



Opt-in isn't good, because transparency is good. If you tackle content you are logged in on a regular basis, they can be used for fast checking to see if the player in question is good for the Ex farm or Weekly savage pugs or whatever it is you do. If you want to hide your logs, thats also fine, people just will be suspicious about it. And if it was opt-in, people would just do the same thing, no logs? Well, something fishy is going on, and the results would be the same.

And when it comes to harassment and toxicity and whatever, everything, EVERYTHING can be misused. Look at Youtube as an example, vast majority don't use it for toxic and bad behaviour, but some still do, so maybe we should shut it down too?

See, I'd be fine with it being automatically uploaded for every run as to provide something consistently representative. But, it isn't. It has to be installed and readied separately from the game, and not everyone will do that or have it put up. Thus, representation is already skewed. Given that, I'd rather see representation be solely voluntary on the part of those affected, rather than at least as much on the part of those around them. If it's going to be skewed, it shouldn't encourage avoiding anyone with the software on days when you can be brought down by some factor outside your control just to keep your history representative of how you play when actually in a static or mostly controlled environment. It's quite frustrating to join what ends up a trap party just to have your parse uploaded by someone who is fine with, say, putting up an 18th percentile of their own as long as it means sticking it to everyone they managed to troll in the process, and not at all useful to informing later groups or static (yet affects a player's average and history just the same).

[Sugux]

No it does not create toxic people, it depends how people use the tools you on the other hand sound like an actual toxic person against the user who use the tools for them self and own improvement. " the balance discord is elitist" no dude you prob just bump into some nasty people in there. everyone els are kind and helpfull no matter if you're a casual. do you even have solid proof of your claims?

[Nemekh]

OP,

You are still listed as a member of The Balance discord.

Players who are toxic are moderated and dealt with. What experience did you personally have to make the claim you have?

If this is just something to say for sensationalism, then I question your motives for such a thread.

Nemekh,
Summoner Mentor @ The Balance

[NocturniaUzuki]

While I can't comment on the legality of it, I do have to admit that it is frequently used for name-and-shame, and that the fact that you have to opt out is a major affront to player privacy. It should most certainly be a voluntary opt-in system.

But perhaps rather than attacking FFlogs itself, what SQEX should do is finally take a serious stance on parsing. If they want it to remain against the ToS, they should actively pursue means of banning those involved. Or if they want to allow it, they should make it transparent and pursue means of identifying which players are parsing, and add an option to allow or disallow it in parties. This would allow those who don't want their data gathered to avoid parsers.

[Videra]

I do have to admit that it is frequently used for name-and-shame,

I would like to see a single shred of evidence for this actually happening 'frequently'.

[NocturniaUzuki]

I would like to see a single shred of evidence for this actually happening 'frequently'.

Paradox. You can't offer any that it doesn't either.

The only evidence I can offer is that it has personally happened to me several times. Something that I find unusual, since usually peoples' claims are not supported by my personal experiences. For example, people often claimed Rescue was used for troubling, and yet I never once encountered a Rescue troll. Maybe I was lucky, or maybe it was overblown. Or maybe I simply never played with the portion of the community frequented by trolls. However, I have encountered several FFlog shamers. In my case, they use it to check content experience. Since I usually have little interest in mainstream raiding, I may not have cleared or even attempted certain raids. Yet that is by no means an accurate representation of a players' skill level.

I expect the only evidence can offer is the same: that it hasn't happened to you. Or that your friends say it has never happened to them. There is no unbiased source of data on the frequency of name-and-shame.