As an FFXI player, thank you for Limited Jobs and BLU SE

[Saefinn]

Also, taking ideas or cues from FFXI is by no means a bad thing. But the problem is, when SE have done it, it hasn't been very well done.

I don't think this means the ideas just won't work in FFXIV, just they need to be adapted. Like you might find in various remakes of games, taking Resident Evil 2 as an example, the game has included throwbacks to how old Resident Evil titles in effort to do the remake justice, but hasn't let it negatively impact how modern Resident Evil work and what players expect, instead to compliment it.

What happens with FFXIV is that they badly do this, Eureka as an example could have been more fun if they were smarter about it, realising what makes FFXIV fun is not what made FFXI fun. FFXI's mechanics worked because of how the job system worked. The job system is more watered down in FFXIV and the emphasis is less on how the jobs plays and works in the situation but the mechanics themselves. For something like Eureka to have worked to modernise an FFXI concept, the open world aspect I think was a good starting point, and having the need to hunt NM's in big groups I think would have still gone down well. But they made it so if you did mob grind, the exp is really slow and there's very little satisfaction from doing it - the elemental and chain system could have been done better. The NM's their decision to make them FATEs was what ruined it for Eureka IMO.

A couple of things that they could have done: 1) take a cue out of Guild Wars 2's book and make pretty epic world bosses that give good rewards, have required mechanics and encourage a big group to go after it, which we sort of got with some of the top rank hunts, but make it less like a face roll or 2) Use the Leve system for NM's, once you spawn them it's for your group and make it difficult enough to encourage a full party, but unlike the leve system, introduce more fight mechanics to keep it interesting like you might expect in a dungeon or raid. As it is the leve system, there wouldn't need to be a risk of your party killing other players or somebody killing it before you get a chance to get a hit.

I think something like this would have still been a throwback to FFXI's openworld NM endgame content, whilst embracing FFXIV's approach to content.

[Ruf]

Also, taking ideas or cues from FFXI is by no means a bad thing. But the problem is, when SE have done it, it hasn't been very well done.

I don't think this means the ideas just won't work in FFXIV, just they need to be adapted. Like you might find in various remakes of games, taking Resident Evil 2 as an example, the game has included throwbacks to how old Resident Evil titles in effort to do the remake justice, but hasn't let it negatively impact how modern Resident Evil work and what players expect, instead to compliment it.

What happens with FFXIV is that they badly do this, Eureka as an example could have been more fun if they were smarter about it, realising what makes FFXIV fun is not what made FFXI fun. FFXI's mechanics worked because of how the job system worked. The job system is more watered down in FFXIV and the emphasis is less on how the jobs plays and works in the situation but the mechanics themselves. For something like Eureka to have worked to modernise an FFXI concept, the open world aspect I think was a good starting point, and having the need to hunt NM's in big groups I think would have still gone down well. But they made it so if you did mob grind, the exp is really slow and there's very little satisfaction from doing it - the elemental and chain system could have been done better. The NM's their decision to make them FATEs was what ruined it for Eureka IMO.

A couple of things that they could have done: 1) take a cue out of Guild Wars 2's book and make pretty epic world bosses that give good rewards, have required mechanics and encourage a big group to go after it, which we sort of got with some of the top rank hunts, but make it less like a face roll or 2) Use the Leve system for NM's, once you spawn them it's for your group and make it difficult enough to encourage a full party, but unlike the leve system, introduce more fight mechanics to keep it interesting like you might expect in a dungeon or raid. As it is the leve system, there wouldn't need to be a risk of your party killing other players or somebody killing it before you get a chance to get a hit.

I think something like this would have still been a throwback to FFXI's openworld NM endgame content, whilst embracing FFXIV's approach to content.

Wow that's a hit right on the nail. I have never played guild wars but i can say that I really agree with the resident evil comment & the explanation you gave about eureka.I' m giving it a like.

[Skeith9]

it's brought out some good in the community with the skill swapping parties, and I'm enjoying helping other people after I've already learned the 47 non masked carnivale spells.

I have legitimately interacted with the community more and had more fun with BLU than with any dungeon run. "Surprisingly" the solo-job feels less lonely then party play in dungeons. The good has been brought out and that good is PEOPLE TALKING finally. I only get to hang and chat outside of grindy combat or when we are shetetalking each other in 24 man raids.

So much good vibes right now IN GAME. Haha.

[Phoenicia]

I have legitimately interacted with the community more and had more fun with BLU than with any dungeon run. "Surprisingly" the solo-job feels less lonely then party play in dungeons. The good has been brought out and that good is PEOPLE TALKING finally. I only get to hang and chat outside of grindy combat or when we are shetetalking each other in 24 man raids.

So much good vibes right now IN GAME. Haha.

Eh? I've been playing since beta and I have to say for each "toxic" encounter I find at least 50 pleasant ones. This community is frigging great. Ask any "WoW refugee" or any other MMO player coming over to FFXIV. Of course we have some "special cases" but refer to my first sentence.

Also I always talk in parties, all you have to do I press enter on your keyboard. Doesn't need a badly implemented job for people to talk.

What is making people talk in the case of BLU is the fact it is new content. We talked for hunts. We talked for the new extreme primal. We talked in lolgoldsoucer. We always talk about new content.

And as all new content, people are split between liking and not liking.

Good vibes? I have seen BLUs in 4/4 groups leave after they get their spells and to hell with the 4 that helped them get it. What is that if not toxic? Also what about all the crying about the "leveling exploits" and AFK leveling (most of the time the true complaint isn't the fact it's done, but the fact they "have no friends" to do it for them)

I'm sorry but BLU brought as much bad "vibes" and toxicity, if not more, as good "vibes". The fact these threads are going to over 20 pages with people attacking each other instead of expressing and respecting opinions and calling feed back of anyone not agreeing "whining" is proof enough. (Even though said people calling others whiners used to "whine" not more than 1 patch ago. It's a vicious cicle. Just look at tanks. Ohhhhh, I can't wait for the tank forums once the new tank comes out lol).

[Lastelli]

I have legitimately interacted with the community more and had more fun with BLU than with any dungeon run. "Surprisingly" the solo-job feels less lonely then party play in dungeons. The good has been brought out and that good is PEOPLE TALKING finally. I only get to hang and chat outside of grindy combat or when we are shetetalking each other in 24 man raids.

So much good vibes right now IN GAME. Haha.

Sigh...

When people say that some content is "fun" because it made them interact more with the rest of the community, that's pretty much proof that the content itself was so boring that what little enjoyment it provided came from normal social interactions. But you know, you can interact with other players even if you're not a BLU.

[Saefinn]

I don't think this is a trait exclusive to BLU coming out, but may be more noticeable as it's an area where people might need help in. Over the years I think the community has been a mixed bag, but overall a positive one. I've had my share of elitists, share of toxic people, share of people who rage after 1 wipe, share of people who expect people to get content straight away on day one. I've also had my share of friendly and helpful people, share of people who're a good laugh and had some good joking around with strangers in a dungeon. Had some people come in just simply to be helpful. And I concur with the WoW comments above, my experience of WoW was a lot more toxic, whilst there were good people and I don't think would be fair to imply that's the community as a whole, but I certain saw it more and it was often very stupid. I remember watching all of the rages of "git gud" in WoW's PvP that it just destroyed any hopes of success, when I've done PvP here, those people prop up from time-to-time but more often or not, if something is failing, I'll see people try and take command and say "focus here, focus there, let's do this, let's do that" and the chances of success improve and nobody is putting up with annoying ragers. I used to troll ragers in WoW, I've never felt the desire to troll anybody in FFXIV, except my friends...

But I've also seen some toxicity in BLU content as well and is not all good will. For example: when I was learning bristle somebody sent me a tell "how about you go f**k yourself" when I accidently killed the mob too early, which I felt was daft, because if I was a petty person, I could have just swapped jobs and prevent him from killing any mobs.

But the reason I've engaged the forum is because there's also a number of people trying to provide feedback so that Blue Mage can be better for more people. Granted, I don't think all posts have been reasonable, but in my years of playing MMO's, that's kind of normal on forums, I don't think there's anything special in that respect, other than volume as a result of Blue Mage, which many people have been anticipating.

[Tsumdere]

I have legitimately interacted with the community more and had more fun with BLU than with any dungeon run. "Surprisingly" the solo-job feels less lonely then party play in dungeons. The good has been brought out and that good is PEOPLE TALKING finally. I only get to hang and chat outside of grindy combat or when we are shetetalking each other in 24 man raids.

So much good vibes right now IN GAME. Haha.

And yet, I had more positive experiences doing non-BLU stuff because I was never afraid to step up and chat normally. In BLU parties, everyone was just tired, bored, and frustrated.

[Factoree]

And yet, I had more positive experiences doing non-BLU stuff because I was never afraid to step up and chat normally. In BLU parties, everyone was just tired, bored, and frustrated.

Even more generally, while socializing in MMOs can be fun and rewarding, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea and it can at times be a little draining. Isn’t that the reason Duty Finder was even integrated into modern MMOs?

I’m left wondering why Blue Mage was supposed to be “solo-oriented” if it the core of the experience was going to exclude players who prefer to, or have to, go solo.

[Maero]

Maybe not as much anymore but i remember the first week you could be farming enemies and someone or a group would come along and fight the same enemies you were on.. Was not enjoyable at all.