(Spoilers) Ghimlyt difficulty was a step down from the Burn...and that needs to stop

[Alexandre_Noireau]

It's only bad to players who fail to realize that at the end of the day, SE is trying to keep people playing. Make things too difficult, and they'd lose more subscriptions than they would making things too easy. So long as the vast majority of game income comes from casual players who just want simple fun rather than the tryhards wanting players to be more tryhard like them, that's the group that devs would best cater to. As for Ghimlyt, I'd say it's right where it needs to be as far as difficulty goes. No excessively punishing boss mechanics, no mobs whose hit boxes cause players to have to move out of the healer's range, the mobs are scaled to be enough of a general challenge to players going in at minimum item level and the boss fights themselves are in-line with scaling as well. The only real complaint I have is that the item level requirement for it is oddly well above the item level of gear that drops from the other dungeons in the expert roulette group.

Also, if you want content to be more difficult, you can do that by yourself. Run harder content at minimum ilvl or on a job you barely know anything about. It's far easier for the player to make regular content more challenging than devs to make content that would please everyone all the time.

I don't want content to be more difficult. God stop it.
I want the game to have a proper learning curve, and a proper difficulty curve. I't shouldnt be, that a level 70 dungeon is just as simple as a level 30 one, and it shouldn't be that level 70 players cannot be bothered to play their classes properly (is not like we have a massive customization system, we literally have only ONE way to play, the right one) yet they can progress and alter other's performance.

That said, games are meant to be challenging, if not, there is no point of them, you might aswell play facebook pet games or something, that barely pass as videogames anyway.

My parents play this game mostly for the story and crafting/gathering, dungeons really aren't their thing and struggle. I help them get through things, but Castrum flumis(sp) and the burn were absolute horrible to get them through just so they can watch a few more CS and go back to crafting/gathering. There is a time and a place for over the top mechanics and MSQ isn't it. Heck if the burn had been one of the side quest 4 man's i wouldn't be stating this opinion. I welcome getting them through this final 4man it will be a piece of cake. Anyway.

Then they shouldn't be doing this content, either they learn, improve, "git gud" or drop it, or dedicate to the plenty of other alternatives and hold the storyline for a while, options there are.
When did gaming became such a cattering to people that cannot be bothered to learn how to play, is basically asking for the game to be whatever.

Might aswell explain why we only get half-assed content all the time, SE has no idea of what to do since it has to pretend to design a game for so many, and is abandoning basic game design principles: Games have rules, you learn them and progress. Not the other way arround.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I don't want content to be more difficult. God stop it.
I want the game to have a proper learning curve, and a proper difficulty curve. I't shouldnt be, that a level 70 dungeon is just as simple as a level 30 one, and it shouldn't be that level 70 players cannot be bothered to play their classes properly (is not like we have a massive customization system, we literally have only ONE way to play, the right one) yet they can progress and alter other's performance.

That said, games are meant to be challenging, if not, there is no point of them, you might aswell play facebook pet games or something, that barely pass as videogames anyway.

Then they shouldn't be doing this content, either they learn, improve, "git gud" or drop it, or dedicate to the plenty of other alternatives and hold the storyline for a while, options there are.
When did gaming became such a cattering to people that cannot be bothered to learn how to play, is basically asking for the game to be whatever.

Might aswell explain why we only get half-assed content all the time, SE has no idea of what to do since it has to pretend to design a game for so many, and is abandoning basic game design principles: Games have rules, you learn them and progress. Not the other way arround.

At the end of the day, casuals pay the bills. And when it comes to mandatory content, don't forget that Titan Hard mode must be done twice in the story. It's a reasonable difficultly IMO for the most part.

If you want more challenging content, I'll repeat what others have said and say that Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, and maybe even Ultimate is right up your alley.

[KaivaC]

At the end of the day, casuals pay the bills. And when it comes to mandatory content, don't forget that Titan Hard mode must be done twice in the story. It's a reasonable difficultly IMO for the most part.

If you want more challenging content, I'll repeat what others have said and say that Extreme Trials, Savage Raids, and maybe even Ultimate is right up your alley.

The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

[RokkuEkkusu]

The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

I remember the time back in 2.1 when Pharos Sirius was the hardest of the level 50 dungeons. Because people we're so bad at it, they ended up doing Wanderer's Palace and Haukke Manor (Hard) more often because they were easier to complete for similar rewards. One's mileage may vary for Copperbell Mines (Hard) and Amdapor Keep pre-nerf.

In the end, the reward has to match the effort the players put in. If there are easier alternatives, expect the players to take those routes and ignore the harder ones.

[KaivaC]

I remember the time back in 2.1 when Pharos Sirius was the hardest of the level 50 dungeons. Because people we're so bad at it, they ended up doing Wanderer's Palace and Haukke Manor (Hard) more often because they were easier to complete for similar rewards. One's mileage may vary for Copperbell Mines (Hard) and Amdapor Keep pre-nerf.

In the end, the reward has to match the effort the players put in. If there are easier alternatives, expect the players to take those routes and ignore the harder ones.

Exactly - that's why I'm saying that the dungeons have to be rewarding experiences. We wouldn't know midcore content because the devs have not approached it since, honestly, the Vault. An argument could be made in Stormblood for Bardam's, but really, the main difficulty came in the form of the trash mobs in combination with the ilvl gear up until the second boss. Making harder hitting trash does not equate to a proper difficulty curve, because it's still the exact same thing - gather trash, AoE them down. There are plenty of hard-to-get rewards now that could be offered up in future content to match the difficulty.

[linay]

The thing is, the game shouldn't be split between the mostly easy dungeons (save for a few exceptions) and the endgame raids. There is a rather big jump between the two with absolutely nothing in the middle. I feel like the devs should not be afraid in making some actual, true midcore dungeons. They've already stated that as far as MSQ goes, Shinryu is going to be the absolute hardest that they were going to make a story trial. Which is fine and all, but that leaves the rest of the dungeons that are fairly easy to do, unless the players in the party are woefully unprepared, or are not able to handle it.

There is room for a middle ground between the two (and that doesn't mean giving more trash mobs - actually, we'd need less trash mobs and more rewarding experiences).

Trials and alliance raids exist in between expert dungeons and normal raids.

[Hestzhyen]

Trials and alliance raids exist in between expert dungeons and normal raids.

A lot of the trials are closer to easy than challenging. Just looking at the SB Trials, the only ones that required me to think and react well were Shinryu and Tsukuyomi. Susano'o and Lakshimi were leveling trials, and while actually more difficult than their EX versions due to forced sync, they're definitely no Titan HM. The rest of them I walked in blind to and didn't even die, didn't wipe, just saw the "don't stand here you dummy" mechanics and did the needful. Vast majority of dungeons were like that too. Mind you I main healer, so when a piece of content actually forces me to participate as a healer, it's always a welcome surprise. It's usually the midcore content that does that best- I need to heal, I need to be situationally aware, but I don't have to stress so much about optimization like Savage/EX demands.

Alliance raids are the only content that really hit the sweet spot IMO. Ever since VA there is at least one boss that will punish inattentiveness and lack of skill without making a comeback hopeless. I wish there was more content on that level of difficulty.

[Aeloria]

I think it's really neat you play this game with your parents. You couldn't do that with many games, it is why this game is different. I don't know how old you are or they are, but it's really great that you can spend time with them like that.

Thanks! I'm 37 and my parents are nearly is their late 50's. my younger sister plays too!

Then they shouldn't be doing this content, either they learn, improve, "git gud" or drop it, or dedicate to the plenty of other alternatives and hold the storyline for a while, options there are.
When did gaming became such a cattering to people that cannot be bothered to learn how to play, is basically asking for the game to be whatever.

Might aswell explain why we only get half-assed content all the time, SE has no idea of what to do since it has to pretend to design a game for so many, and is abandoning basic game design principles: Games have rules, you learn them and progress. Not the other way arround.

I'm sorry but are your dollars somehow better than my parents dollars? Are you really suggesting that they shouldn't get to enjoy the story that they pay for? An MSQ dungeon isn't a place to be seeing how difficult something can be. They shouldn't have to wait to clear something. That isn't a solution or an answer.

Also to say they have plenty of things to do is not the answer or the solution either. I could turn around and say the same thing to you. Do you feel satisfied with your options? I'm judging by your post that you are not satisfied with your options.

The problem here is not the people that need to git gud but rather SE is not creating another mode for their dungeons that are ramped up in difficulty for people like you to enjoy. WoW does this among many other MMO's. Why can't SE?